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My Dinner With Hillary -- and 1000 Other People

by: Pericles

Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 13:35:17 PM EDT


( - promoted by Dean)

All those times when I've sardined myself into a packed bookstore or high school gym to hear a candidate for free, I've wondered: Do you get what you pay for? If I shelled out some bucks and went to one of those high-roller fund-raisers, could I get serious face time with a big-name Democrat like Hillary Clinton?

Here's what I learned Saturday night at the New Hampshire Democratic Party's annual 100 Club dinner:

  • $100 doesn't make you a high roller.
  • Even the people who spent $500 for the pre-dinner reception looked pretty jammed together.
  • Hillary Clinton gives a good speech.
  • If you have a choice, go to a free rally.
Pericles :: My Dinner With Hillary -- and 1000 Other People
The NHDP Celebrates 
The 100 Club dinner, I learned, goes back to 1959 when the headliner was another ambitious senator from a nearby state: John F. Kennedy. And it isn't a campaign rally for the headliner, it's a celebration of the state Democratic Party.

At the moment, the NHDP is a party with a lot to celebrate. This traditionally Republican state started to go blue in 2004, when John Kerry narrowly won our 4 electoral votes and carried a previously unknown gubernatorial candidate in with him: John Lynch. In 2006 (our governors serve 2-year terms), that little ripple became a tidal wave: Lynch was re-elected with an astounding 74% of the vote. Both houses of the legislature flipped to the Democrats for the first time since the Grant administration. Incumbent Republicans were tossed out of both of our congressional seats.

If only we'd had a senate race.

Anyway, back to the dinner.  Driving in, we waved and blinked our headlights at maybe 20 anti-war demonstrators. Once inside the Nashua Sheraton, my wife and I had to walk a gauntlet of young Hillary staffers wanting to give us a button or sticker and put us on their mailing list. I'm undecided and I have a policy against wearing buttons just to blend in, so I said no.

My lack of protective coloration attracted a predator: a reporter from Manchester's ultra-conservative Union Leader. He asked what advice I would give Hillary, probably hoping for something juicy and negative. I didn't deliver: "Show courage. Be bold. Talk about big ideas." He poked at that answer to see if he could get me to say that Hillary is too programmed. I didn't, so in the Sunday Union Leader my quote appeared well below the person who said "I think she'd do anything to get elected."

Speaking of blending in, I should have worn a suit. Except for the reporters, the cameramen, and one other guy, I was the only suitless man in sight. This high-roller thing is new to me.

The food was surprisingly decent. We sat at a table with eight people we didn't know and discussed the other candidates we'd seen. One couple, retired academics from NYU, had been impressed by Joe Biden. But they speculated that he was "too smart to make it." They were very nice people and probably had no idea that they were walking stereotypes of liberal elitism. Thank God the Union Leader guy never found them.

Senator Clinton, I noticed with disappointment, did not eat at our table or even in our room. I didn't catch sight of her until we filed into a large area where 800-1000 chairs were set up. During the transition staffers continued to work the crowd, offering Hillary chocolate bars in exchange for your name on a mailing list. (This idea was cuter when Wes Clark's people did it in 2004. Clark bars actually exist and don't have to be fabricated for the campaign. I am resisting turning that into a metaphor.)

The woman behind me was talking about the NHDP fund-raiser Obama did in December. I caught the words "unbelievable speaker" and "charismatic". The (apparently false) rumor was going around that Bill Richardson had pulled out of the race, and I heard someone talk about the money that it takes to run these days. "It's not right," she said.

A Long Series of Warm-Up Acts
Then the program started. It was interesting in an anthropological way, sort of like a high school graduation. The MC was outgoing party chair Kathy Sullivan, so every speaker had to make an obligatory comment about her remarkable term in office. (The heir apparent, Raymond Buckley, was just cleared of a Republican smear concerning child pornography. Manchester police concluded that the charge was "unsubstantiated and unfounded". That's the kind of thing we're up against.) An award was given to the three pro-bono lawyers who pushed a civil suit in regard to the 2002 phone-jamming dirty trick. New Hampshire Republicans paid $135,000 to settle the suit, but for some reason the U.S. attorney dragged his feet about a criminal investigation. Maybe he knows what happens to U.S. attorneys who investigate Republicans.

Then Governor Lynch spoke for fifteen minutes. He has picked up a lot of polish since I first saw him in 2004 at a local Democracy For America meeting in a bookstore that no longer exists. He might be someone to watch in years to come, and is going to turn up on somebody's VP list. He's not charismatic, but if you want to send a message that you're serious about good government and are willing to work with anybody who wants to be reasonable, Lynch is your guy. Or maybe Governor Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas.

New state Senate President Sylvia Larsen and new state Speaker of the House Terrie Norelli began a theme of women in power. Larsen introduced all the Democratic senators, the majority of whom are female.

They were followed by new federal Congresspeople Carol Shea-Porter and Paul Hodes, who split about 15 minutes. Hodes had run for Congress before and figured to give the Republicans a close race, but Shea-Porter was an upset winner in the primary and came from nowhere to unseat Republican Jeb Bradley. I don't think he even realized he was in trouble until it was too late.

The two had contrasting styles but similar messages. Shea-Porter spoke in a relaxed just-us-Democrats manner, while Hodes gave a fiery campaign speech. The subtext of both talks was to have patience with Congress' painfully slow moves to end the war. Shea-Porter had just returned from Iraq, which she described as "an awful, desolate-looking place." Her voice expressed genuine sadness, something you don't hear very often from politicians. She also spoke with pride about the accomplishments of the House Democrats' opening flurry, including a bill to raise the minimum wage and let Medicare negotiate for better drug prices.

Hodes balanced his own opposition to the war with the importance of party unity. "The country needs to see that Democrats are ready to govern." He tossed the crowd the only red meat of the evening by describing the recent hearings on the Walter Reed Hospital and U.S. attorneys scandals: Democrats have "returned oversight and accountability to our government. We are uncovering the rot and mold." And he pledged to "keep shining the light of truth and justice in every dark corner."

Hillary's Speech
And then it was time for Senator Clinton. She talked for about a half hour and split the difference between the Shea-Porter and Hodes styles of rhetoric. The first half of her talk was full of local reminiscence and gossip, dating back to Bill's 1992 campaign. She knew the room was full of the state party establishment rather than undecided voters, and she clearly sent the "I'm one of you" message. A running joke through the evening was the state party's need to find new staffers because the Clinton campaign has hired them all.

Eventually, though, her stump speech began to break through. It's a really good speech. I had heard sound bytes from it before, but it has an internal unity you can't appreciate until you hear the whole thing. The central pledge is to "restore America's basic bargain: Work hard and play by the rules and you'll have the chance to build a better life for yourself and your children. And your government will be on your side."

She then laid out the speech's central image: That the people who do the hard work and make the hard sacrifices in this country are invisible to the Republicans who have been running the government and to their corporate-executive allies. This image, I have to say, is brilliant. It takes all the failures and scandals of the Bush administration and subtly ties them back to an attitude of upper-class obliviousness. If I were another candidate, I would steal it immediately.

The associated litany goes like this: "If you are ..., you are invisible." If you work for the minimum wage. If your job has been outsourced. If you were a 9/11 first responder and are now suffering health problems from it. If you are a wounded soldier returning from combat. If you are a child whose school never received the funding promised by No Child Left Behind. If you're a single mom who needs childcare. If you're a government scientist trying to warn people about global warming. If you're a U.S. attorney trying to enforce the law impartially. If you're one of the 46 million without health insurance. If you're one of the 90,000 Katrina victims still living in temporary housing. If you're one of the 13 million children living in poverty.

You're invisible. The government can't see you.

And the litany concludes with: "Well you're not invisible to us. And when we retake the White House you won't be invisible to the President of the United States."

She talked about how blacks were invisible in American society before the civil rights movement, and quoted Martin Luther King: "Our lives begin to end the day that we become silent about things that matter."

This introduces a litany listing things that matter. Families matter. Healthcare matters. Working people matter. Our soldiers. Education. Fiscal responsibility. Innovation. America's standing in the world. The war in Iraq. Each thing that matters is followed by a goal or a program or a policy that addresses that thing. The mention of the war, for example, is followed by this sound bite: "President Bush should end this war before he leaves office. But if he doesn't, I will."

That leads to the only claim she makes about herself: "I'm ready."

"I'm ready to run against the Republicans and win. I'm ready to govern and to lead our country into the future."

This, again, is brilliant. To me at that moment she represented her entire gender, standing on the doorstep of power and saying "I'm ready." I don't think I was the only one who heard that.

She closed by addressing the question of whether America is ready -- for a female president. She flashed back to JFK addressing the first 100 Club dinner, facing the question of whether America was ready for a Catholic president. And she concluded "We'll never know unless we try."

Speaking as a writer, whoever wrote the stump speech is a genius. It's structured. It's memorable. You can pull sound bites out of it. And the underlying metaphors should ring true for large portions of the American public. But that just means that her speechwriter should be the next presidential speechwriter. Whether Senator Clinton should be the next president is a separate question.

Intangibles
On Huffington Post this week, Thomas De Zengotita diagnosed Hillary with negative charisma. That's one of a long series of attempts by writers across the political spectrum to associate Senator Clinton with some nebulous, intangible trait that makes people not like her.

Does any of this sound familiar? In 2000 Al Gore had such a trait. In 2004 John Kerry did. By contrast, George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan both had some equally undefinable likeability. Even after Bush's poll numbers slipped into the 30s, the media kept telling us how much we like him. They're still telling me how much I like Laura, the Stepford First Lady who creeped me out at first sight.

This stuff is all nonsense. Hillary is "unlikeable" because she's the front-running Democrat. If Obama becomes the front-runner, the press will instantly discover something unlikeable about him too. They're already looking: He's too young. He's too black. He's not black enough. His middle name is Hussein. There will be something. Whoever we nominate, there will be some mysterious reason to feel uneasy about voting for him or her.

We've got to stop playing along with this garbage. Liberal Democrats have picked up this Republican talking point about Hillary and used it for their own purposes. Centrist Democrats pick up other Republican talking points about the "extreme left" and use them. This has got to stop.

In particular, we need to reject all these nebulous qualities. Some are just nonsense, and others are screens on which to project unconscious or unadmitted prejudices. On the conservative blogs they're already talking about how Hillary would certainly lose to Giuliani because he "looks presidential" and she doesn't. Maybe because he's a man like all our other presidents? Obama probably won't look presidential either, for some reason you can't possibly define -- unless you can see the difference between black and white.

For what it's worth, I saw no sign of negative charisma when I watched Hillary's speech. Quite the opposite, I found myself trying to make excuses for the legitimate things I don't like about her as a candidate. And in random interactions at campaign events I observe that a lot of middle-aged professional women identify strongly with her. Many of them won't come out and say they're for her, but if you criticize her they look like they've been insulted. I'll bet that translates into a bunch of unexpected suburban votes.

So here's what I suggest: Don't let the media tell you who you like or don't like. And in particular don't cast your vote based on some pundit's unsubstantiated view of who other people like. If some "unlikeable" or "unelectable" candidate speaks to you and for you, trust yourself and vote for that candidate.

Evaluating Senator Clinton
As a candidate, I don't see what's not to like about her. The word that sums her up in my mind is professional. She speaks well, she has poise, she's well informed, and her ideas are always well thought out. There was no question period Saturday, but I've seen her answer questions on TV. She appears to think well on her feet and to banter well with talk show hosts. We've seen with Senator Kerry how the media can manufacture gaffes out of anything, but I think Clinton will make fewer legitimate mistakes than any of our other candidates and will do a good job of getting herself out of whatever situations come up.

As a president, I have many of the same problems with Hillary that I had with Bill. The defeat of the Clinton healthcare program was the end of visionary leadership. In the final six years of his presidency, Bill Clinton specialized in capturing Republican issues: the budget deficit, free trade, welfare reform, putting more cops on the street. He seemed intent on proving that he could be a better moderate Republican than any moderate Republican.

That was great for him personally. He was a popular president in spite of the incredible attacks on him, and he remains popular today. But the party didn't do so well under his leadership. Democrats didn't recover from the 1994 losses until 2006.

The problem, as I see it, is that Bill Clinton didn't leave behind any Clintonism that the party could run on. A Clinton Democrat is opportunistic and pragmatic. You can't predict what a Clinton Democrat will do until the situation actually arises. So Clintonian vision is almost a contradiction in terms. Now after six years of President Bush, who won't let actual events or the American people interfere with the world he sees in his head, that's not all bad. But it's not all good either.

This is the source of Hillary Clinton's Iraq problem. She's for military action that works and against military action that doesn't work. If Iraq were stable today and headed towards a bright democratic future, she'd be taking credit for her role in supporting the invasion. If the CIA came to her as president with a plan to topple the Iranian government, I think her first question would be: "Will it work?" not "Is it right?" She'd react to the plan rather than pursue a vision of America's proper role in the Middle East.

Now, I think that view represents the American people. Hillary appears to shift her positions in response to their popularity, but I think it's more accurate to say that her positions shift with their popularity. The American people are opportunistic and pragmatic, so they'll change their minds at about the same time Hillary does.

As I said about Bill, that's not all bad. But I have a problem with the Clinton level of pragmatism. Pragmatists react to the issues that are already on the agenda, and the American agenda today revolves around Republican issues: Should we invade more countries or not? Should we cut more taxes or not? Where can we cut the entitlement programs to make them more affordable? Which civil liberties should we give up to fight terrorism? Democratic issues like universal health care or open government or a renewal of international institutions are as invisible as the working class people Hillary talks about.

I don't doubt that Hillary Clinton can work through that Republican agenda more competently than the Republicans have. But I'm looking for a president who can change the agenda, one who can redefine liberalism for a new era. It's hard to see Hillary in that role.

So, for now, I'm still looking. If in the end I don't find what I'm looking for, I may come back to Hillary Clinton. She's good. And I won't let the best become the enemy of the good.

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Great diary! (0.00 / 0)
I wasn't at the dinner -- I appreciate the view of it.

Comprehensive (4.00 / 1)
Dean, I was there too and I think you did a good job in covering the territory.  Of course, I don't agree with your pessimistic view of her at the end of your diary, but I am willing to accept on face value your willingness to "come back" to her if you don't find for what you are looking.

Some of you should come over to the dark side. It feels really good . . .

A couple of things you missed:

1) Her wit and humor.  When Kathy Sullivan introduced her as "divinely beautiful" she did a very funny riff off of that. She also talked about Bill driving up Dunkin Donut business when he was campaigning in 1990s.  She was very relaxed and funny at appropriate times.

2) At the end of her speech she spoke about her experience for her years as an advocate for children, 8 years as a first lady and six years as a Senator. She also spoke about visiting 82 foreign countries.  I believe these comments were an attempt to contrast her experience with Senator Obama. That was the first time I had heard her go into so much detail about her experience.


Note: this diary is by "Pericles", not me. (0.00 / 0)
I just promoted it because it was so well done.

birch, finch, beech

[ Parent ]
Sorry (0.00 / 0)
I missed that.  I knew that you had gone to the Dinner so I was waiting for your diary to see what you had to say. I guess I jumped in a little too quickly.

[ Parent ]
Interesting (0.00 / 0)
I appreciate Pericles' analysis, I don't agree with each piece of it, but it is very reflective of what I hear from people who don't like Senator Clinton before they meet her, and then do a 90-180 degree turn after.  I would hazard a guess that 99% of us who post here moan and groan about the mainstream press 99% of the time, but our perception of Senator Clinton is based on that msm filter, and yet until we actually see her, we don't question where our perception comes from!  In any event, I thought her speech was great, and while I haven't made my mind up yet, she would be a great candidate!  Pericles, do you feel a little badly now that you said she would do anything to win?  Speaking of comments in the press, I have a little problem with Arnie Arneson't comment in the Monitor that it was a "generic Democrat" speech.  First of all, "generic" Democrat is pretty good in my book, and second - can't she ever say anything positive about someone? 

It is too bad (0.00 / 0)
I thought the evening was a big success. My only complaint is that it is too bad that New Hampshire does not have a banquet facility to be able to do hold a dinner of 1500 or more actually sitting in the room. Maybe someday...

Have you written a letter to the editor today? Have you donated today? Have you put up signs? Have you made calls? Have you talked to your neighbors?

[ Parent ]
I appreciate your objectivity (0.00 / 0)
...as well as your steadfastedness in not being easily convinced.

I saw her speak and got to meet her privately afterwards.

If it's not a good speech, it's not a good speech.  Just because I had ten people wearing 'Hillary' buttons come up to me after and say "wasn't that a great speech" doesn't mean it was.  In fact, many people I talked to were very troubled by it.

The only thing I thought she did a good job with in this speech was irony.

Claiming that she runs a grassroots campaign. As her campaign tries to steamroll the state primary...

Claiming that the only thing people can find wrong with her is her gender. That's the only thing I LIKE about her...

Claiming that she will end the war if Bush hasn't by the time she's president. So you intend to start doing your job in 2009?...

Joking that half the state party is on her payroll. I wasn't laughing...

None of this surprised me though.  The more I've been talking to higher ups who aren't falling for her, the more I've come to accept that she'll do and say anything to win.

What troubled me on Saturday night was that the 100 Club Dinner turned into Hillary Clinton's primary victory party.

Her "us" and "them" talk was supposedly aimed at Republicans, but the general message that the event projected was "train's leaving the station, you're either with us or against us".  The language was unmistakable.  She kept referring to 'us' and 'we' (the royal we) with the meaning of that term constantly changing.  The ending of her speech was what threw me off the most - rather than take her standing ovation and come out into the crowd right away, they had all the senators and congressfolk get up on stage and 'celebrate' with her to a cheesy classic rock song.  I know that most of them have not endorsed her, so I can imagine they felt a bit awkward up there when they realized that this wasn't about celebrating our democratic victory 4 months ago, but was instead a rally for Hillary.

If you listened closely to the other speakers, you'd have realized that many of them deliberately avoided mentioning her name. Can't blame you if you didn't notice though, because that night the NH Democratic Party became fairly hard to distinguish from Hillary for President 2008.

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship


[ Parent ]
I meant to reply to the diarist n/t (0.00 / 0)


It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship

[ Parent ]
Too bad you had that reaction (0.00 / 0)
Most of the people attending from my area were uncommitted and they have told me since that they thought it was a good speech.  There would be no reason to go out of their way to do that. I am sure that it will be on C-Span and people may make there own judgment.

As far as people mentioning her name in their speeches, I know that Governor Lynch, Senator Larson, Speaker Norelli, and Kathy Sullivan certainly acknowledged Senator Clinton in their remarks.  I believed, but I am not sure, that Representative Shea-Porter mentioned her name. Even Paul Twomey in accepting his award acknowledged Senator Clinton. The only speaker that did not was Representative Hodes.

I have been to many 100 Club Dinners and the courtesy and appreciation shown to Senator Clinton was similar to the courtesy and appreciation usually shown to all previous keynote speakers. I did not get the impression that the 100 Club Dinner turned into a "Hillary Clinton Primary Victory Party" and neither did the strangers who were around me in the audience and my friends in my car who were not supporters of her.


[ Parent ]
CSP did not mention her (0.00 / 0)
...like I said, most wouldn't have noticed

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship

[ Parent ]
I don't get your point (0.00 / 0)
So she did not mention Senator Clinton in her remarks.

Are you saying that Carol Shea-Porter was purposely slighting her by not mentioning her?

I can understand that the U.S. Representatives don't want to commit to anyone now, but I don't think that they would go out of their way to slight Senator Clinton or anyone else running for president. 

Didn't Representative Shea-Porter introduce her at the Clinton campaign rally in Dover?


[ Parent ]
No. (0.00 / 0)
Why would it be a "slight" not to mention her?  That suggests that everyone there should've been paying tribute to her, which was my impression of what some intended the event to be.  I'm saying they didn't play along, which doesn't surprise me because they work in Washington D.C. too.

As for the rest of my experience (I haven't talked about my reaction yet)...  I am not surprised that your entire perception of the event was different from mine - you don't have people treating you like there's something wrong with you if you're already wearing a Hillary button.

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship


[ Parent ]
Too bad (4.00 / 1)
You are welcome to sit with the people from Cheshire County next time.  I guess we are a little more tolerant of people who believe differently from us.

[ Parent ]
Thanks but (0.00 / 0)
my table was actually great. They made my night

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship

[ Parent ]
Agreed (4.00 / 2)
Andy, I think it's too bad you had that reaction, but I think that the 100 Club is just like any other event here in New Hampshire. 

Look back to Obama's maiden appearance in the state - he was onstage with our new Democratic majority.  Advertised as an NHDP Victory Celebration, it quickly turned into a Barack Obama rally.  His supporters were all talking about how great his speech was and how he would make a great President.  Personally, I thought he sucked that day, but recognized that other people were enthused and well within their right to tell me how excellent he was. 

The 100 Club was no different.  Hillary gave a great speech and excited people.  Her supporters should be boasting about how fantastic she was and talking to you about why they are supporting her.  It's how politics is done in this state - person to person. 

More than anyone, Hillary's campaign is on top of things.  They are the only people that are hiring in-state staff.  Looking at their hires so far, their staff are all New Hampshire based.  As of yet, no other campaign has hired as many New Hampshire staff, but are importing from out of state.  Moreover, their outreach has been fantastic.  I have a few friends who are State Reps who were given tickets to the 100 Club that the Clinton campaign purchased ($100 value) even though they weren't committed supporters.  This builds goodwill and good relationships with these key activists. 

Put your distaste of her aside, but recognize Hillary is also campaigning the New Hampshire way.  Meeting with the Governor, meeting with Mary Louise Hancock, campaigning in downtown Nashua.  As much as you may want to criticize her, realize that she is competing for votes just like she should be. 

As I posted a few months ago, I was leaning Edwards for a bit but now find myself squarely in the undecided camp.  Still waiting to see if the Obama surge can be maintained and very impressed by Hillary this weekend. 


[ Parent ]
She paid for my ticket too (0.00 / 0)
see "buying new hampshire"..

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship

[ Parent ]
I'm biting my tongue. (0.00 / 0)
My mother always told me to count to ten, but I had to go to twenty for this one.  How can you complain that she is "buying" New Hampshire on the one hand and accept a ticket on the other? ARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!  Talk about contrived outrage!
And, you might want to check and see how many candidates buy tickets for people to go to party fundraisers; there was a Jefferson/Jackson or some other dinner in 2003 or 2004 where both Dean and Kerry got into a ticket buying contest.  I think this happens all the time. 
Sorry, Elwood, I know you don't like this type of dialogue, but we are all only human!! 

[ Parent ]
Well, I'll tell you how (0.00 / 0)
It's not contrived, otherwise I might be able to resist replying to every comment here. 

Rep. Fontas, gallichon, and I were all offered free tickets. This wasn't the first time we've gotten into party dinners for free, it was common during the campaign because we were all 19 year olds.  We have Jane Clemons to thank for that, and this time I assumed it was her suggestion to Hillary's campaign to allow us to come.

I had no ideas of being 'bought'.  Well, I arrived and quickly realized that it wasn't just an act of kindness towards us young folks - every state rep I talked to had gotten in free too.

I guess in order to not be a hypocrit I'd should've gotten my coat and left immediately upon learning this, however that that point it didn't make much of a difference.  The money's just going out one pocket and in the other, as far as her campaign is concerned.

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship


[ Parent ]
Well.. (4.00 / 1)
Maybe the key difference between accepting a ticket and being "bought" is that Representative Edwards wasn't bought by the Clinton campaign, but the state party officials like  now former executive director Nick Clemons were.

[ Parent ]
Nasty Crack (0.00 / 0)
That is a pretty nasty crack; I guess that you think there has to be an ulterior, improper motive for someone to work for a candidate you don't like?  You don't think it is possible that the people who have gone to work for candidates are doing it because they like the candidate?  If someone goes to work for the candidate you support, have they been bought? There is a certain snidely self righteous tone here that is annoying. Every Democratic candidate in this field is a great candidate; this idea that you have to demonize or dehumanize a candidate you don't support, or their supporters, is right out of the Republican Party playbook. 

[ Parent ]
Frodo (0.00 / 0)
I think you are overreacting.

I don't think he was trying to imply an "ulterior, improper motive".  A good paying, prestigious job is motive enough.

And, that's not necessarily a bad thing.  Nick Clemons could very well like HRC, only he knows for sure.


[ Parent ]
I don't think so (0.00 / 0)
When he said people are "bought", there was an implication there that is troubling.  We are all Democrats, or at least Democrat leaning independents, and we should not be demonizing Democratic candidates or their supporters.  Disagree on the issues, criticize on the facts, but don't insinuate and impugn. That is the Karl Rove playbook. 

[ Parent ]
So now we can only criticize (0.00 / 0)
positions they publicly make, we can't take issue with the way in which they conduct their campaigns?

Power is power, no matter whether it's red or blue.  If someone is trying to manipulate the primary through power or money I think we all have a vested interest in discouraging it.  Some times you have to read between the lines, sometimes you have it's just cautious skepticism, but sometimes it's blatantly apparent.

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship


[ Parent ]
wow i'm on a roll here with the typos n/t (0.00 / 0)


It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship

[ Parent ]
What are you criticizing? (0.00 / 0)
You haven't given an example of someone trying to "manipulate" the primary through money or power.

[ Parent ]
I just wanted to add (0.00 / 0)
I just wanted to add that I didn't mean anything negative towards Nick Clemons, but I wanted to point out that I feel Clinton's campaign tactics are more than a little disconcerting.

[ Parent ]
What do you mean? (4.00 / 1)
Waht campaign tactics are you referring to? That her cmapaing paid for some tickets?  Traditional.  That she is hiring qualified staff?  So are the other campaigns.  That she is speaking at an NHDP fundraiser? So have a lot of others.  What tactics? 

[ Parent ]
Mentioning HRC (0.00 / 0)
If I recall correctly, and I may not, CSP, Terie Norelli, Paul Hodes, and Sylvia Larsen all did not mention HRC in their speeches, at least in the context that the other speakers did.

[ Parent ]
Our Democratic Officials (0.00 / 0)
Looking at the folks in the speaking program: 

CSP has introduced Hillary twice at events - once at a breakfast for Manchester politicos and once at a Dover Town Hall Meeting.  Has she done events with any other candidates expect perennial maybe-candidate, Wes Clark?  It's my understanding CSP will remain neutral. 

Hodes introduced Hillary at a Town Hall Meeting in Concord.  He also strolled in downtown Concord with Obama.  That's all I know of right now. 

Norelli was scheduled to host a House Party for Hillary in Portsmouth, but had to cancel because of a vote in the Senate. 

Larsen hosted State Senators at her home for a reception for Hillary.  I know that Obama is holding a luncheon for State Senators on Friday in Concord. 

While these four didn't mention Hillary on Saturday night, they're certainly not averse to appearing with her.  During her speech, more than half the standing ovations she had were started in the second row of dignitaries lead by the female State Senators - Estabrook, DeVries, Hassan, Cilley, et al. 


[ Parent ]
Cut some slack (4.00 / 2)
Boy, you are a tough audience! You complain that she is trying to steamroll the state primay - she is running for president, so she is trying to line up a lot of support, just like every other candidate. As for ending the war, she is one senator out of 100, and the Democrats have neither a veto proof nor filibuster proof majority. I did not hear the "either you are with us or against us" at all.  I think you were reading way, way, way too much into things.  As for the reaction of the crowd, at these party events, the crowd is usually very excited by an receptive to the speaker. Were you at Obama's NHDP event in November, or Kerry's October NHDP event? At each one, the crowd was very enthusiastic. As for anyone "deliberately" not mentioning her, I didn't see anyone avoid going up on stage, and they all seemed to be having a lot of fun. 

[ Parent ]
I wasn't reading (0.00 / 0)
It was up front and in your face.  Any stranger walking into that event would've thought the primary was already over.  That's what her speech implied.

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship

[ Parent ]
This is the kind of "dialogue" (0.00 / 0)
that I hope BlueHampshire does not devolve into.

[ Parent ]
I sure don't enjoy it either (0.00 / 0)
If I can't dissent to the diarist's point of view without getting run down like this by Hillary supporters, this blog definitely needs more diversity.

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship

[ Parent ]
Baloney. (0.00 / 1)
I'm not a Hillary supporter.

I just think you're being completely obnoxious.


[ Parent ]
So much for hoping.. (0.00 / 0)
I wasn't referring to you, maybe I need to be more explicit in my comments.

I'm challenging the account of what the 100 Club Dinner was like, and so far it's 3 on 1 so forgive me for defending myself.

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship


[ Parent ]
No, you are not. (0.00 / 0)
You can post a diary with your impressions.

Instead you are derailing discussions without providing fully-formed analysis.

You're acting like a troll.

Stop it.


[ Parent ]
If you're going to accuse someone of being a troll (0.00 / 0)
then troll rate me and see if it stands.  If the editors think I'm being trollish I'd like to know about it. 

I challenged the prevailing view on Hillary's speech, and I provided reasons why I was bothered by it, and now I'm crazy? I thought the diarist was being pretty fair in his reporting of the events, but he still got criticized simply because he added his own opinions about Hillary at the end of his post.  Try telling me there aren't more Hillary supporters in this thread than not.

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship


[ Parent ]
I said I'm undecided (0.00 / 0)
I haven't made my mind up yet, but you are concluding I am a Clinton supporter despite the fact I said I haven't made my mind up, because I thought she gave a good speech and disagreed with your comments. 

[ Parent ]
I don't think he's acting like a troll. (4.00 / 1)
Andy isn't a Hillary supporter, and thus isn't filling his comments with Hillary praise.  Many commenters on this thread  disagree with him, but that doesn't make his actions trollish.

Perhaps he was being a bit hypocritical, but not trollish.


[ Parent ]
Well.. (0.00 / 0)
God forbid someone talks negatively about a Democrat on a liberal blog.  Stop the presses

[ Parent ]
It wasn't me (4.00 / 1)
I said my comment appeared much lower in the UL story than the woman who said she'd do anything to win.

[ Parent ]
Sorry, Dude (0.00 / 0)
Mea culpa for reading too quickly!!!

[ Parent ]
Better than I expected (0.00 / 0)
This was only my second 100 Club Dinner. The first was the very exciting "cattle call" prior to the NH Primary in 2004.

The speech room was the same and I was impressed that it was filled nearly as much as the 2004 event which featured all of the candidates. Someone with more history can tell me if it par for the course to fill the room.

Minor perhaps, but food was actually present, based on my previous experience I expected "Dinner" of cheese and crackers and limp celery.

I was impressed by the organization from the Hillary Campaign. They were well staffed. I thought the candy bars were a nice touch, after dinner, sitting down for a long series of speeches.

It as nice to see Karen Hicks again in the fray and doing her all for her candidate. Now I don't know Karen other than from a far in NH Dean Campaign. To me the fact that Hillary is able to attract talent such as Karen and Nick Clemmons speaks volumes to me. I don't think they would be on the Hillary train if they did not believe. Campaign work seems to take too much of your life force to do it for something you are not committed at a heart.

So rather than seeing it as a negative, I see it as a positive that Hillary has been able to attract the people she has.

I am still uncommitted, and laissez-faire about whom to support at this point. But Hillary was better than I expected her to be.

The humor she showed at the start was great, natural, and loose.

I think the "invisible" stuff works, but could be tightened up.

Interesting that she invoked JFK naysayers "America is not  ready for a catholic president" and painted herself as today's equivalent. I say interesting in that it sort of neutralizes some of the Obama=JFK stuff.

My advise is that Hillary needs to be out and about as much as she can. The more face time exposure she gets the better she will do. With the front loading of the other primaries it will be interesting to see how much time she can spend in NH.



Hope > Fear




Create a free Blue Hampshire account and join the conversation.


Your last sentence is interesting (4.00 / 2)
in light of the fact that she is actually a prime mover behind pushing up other big-state primaries.

My opinion is that both Teams Hillary and McCain are campaigning as if in the general, not a primary, to create an  "inevitability" aura.

The negatives of being a de facto nominee must be less, in their judgment, than the positives.

birch, finch, beech


[ Parent ]
Obama (4.00 / 2)
Senator Obama is cited as being one of the prime movers too.  Assuming his strategy is not "inevitability," I wonder what it is. He might be hoping a win in one of the big states on February 5 would bolster his campaign if he does not win in New Hampshire or Iowa.

[ Parent ]
You're right. (0.00 / 0)
I shouldn't imply causation when I mean correlation.

Obama, Giuliani and Romney, along with HRC/Obama are all trying to muscle their fundraising prowess into a big bang super Tuesday in big money states (what that does to NH's impact is a story for another day).

That correlates to my suspicion that Hillary and McCain are behaving as if the de facto nominee.

I'm talking purely strategy, not preference here.  Candidates want to win; they play to what advantages they may have.

birch, finch, beech


[ Parent ]
Strategies (4.00 / 1)
I don't dare argue with a teacher about the meaning of the words "correlation" and "causation."  I known better than that.  I will take your word for it.

Senator Clinton obviously knows the advantage of having the momentum.  She is making an effort to capitalize on momentum with the "inevitability" strategy.

In my mind, your description of Senator Clinton as "behaving as the de facto nominee" is different from the "inevitability" strategy.  Senator Clinton knows that you have to win the Presidency in order to change the course of this country.  She has a longer range strategy than just winning the New Hampshire Primary or the Democratic nomination, for that matter. The question is whether she can pull it off.

Walter Shapiro had an interesting article in Salon recently. I think the last paragraph in his article says its all.

This may be a year when the Democrats burn red hot, yearning for the inspirational uplift of Obama or the left-leaning ideological edge of Edwards. But no newly elected Democratic president in modern times (not Kennedy, Carter or Clinton) entered the Oval Office with anything to match the New York senator's eight-year understanding of how the White House works. For Hillary Clinton, an authentic moderate Democrat, that hard-earned wisdom comes with a sense of political prudence and caution. These can be admirable qualities in a president, but after eight years of Bush and Cheney, they are not necessarily a winning formula for a candidate locked in an arduous battle for the Democratic nomination.


[ Parent ]
Wait (4.00 / 1)
Because Senator Obama is also pressuring to front load the Primaries, it makes it ok that Senator Clinton is, too?

No deal.

That's one of the things that irritates me about BOTH candidates.


[ Parent ]
Possible Benefit (0.00 / 0)
I actually think that it might be a benefit to New Hampshire.  It makes the New Hampshire result all that more important leading into the February 5 primaries.

The other thing is that there is a good possiblity that Secretary of State Bill Gardner is going to move up the New Hampshire Primary to an earlier date.  I think that January 8 is being mentioned as a possibility.


[ Parent ]
It doesn't amtter, imo (4.00 / 1)
if its good for New Hampshire.

I'm concerned about weather or not its good for the PROCESS.

I firmly believe in a staggered primary as the best way to choose a candidate.  It gives lesser known candidates a better chance to make their case to the voters, and it lessens the impact of the early states.

I don't think we should have a candidate by February.


[ Parent ]
Good point (0.00 / 0)
I agree with you, but it seems that everyone else believes otherwise, including, Chairman Dean, the leading candidates, and even some of the lesser candidates at this point (e.g. Richardson worked to get Nevada moved up).

Maybe they will learn from this cycle which seems to be getting out of control. Who knows?


[ Parent ]
'everyone' (4.00 / 2)
There is good reason for the Democratic Establishment to try and do exactly as they do.  They are trying to exert more control over the primary process; have more control over the Democratic Nominee.  There may be good reason for this too, a stronger party with a more clear message.

They are being very dishonest when they bill it as a move in favor of 'diversity'.  This is an argument that could appeal to a large number of Democrats, but its not the real reason for their change. 

Which state bears the 'diversity' banner?  A state with a large African American population?  A large Latino population?  A large rural population?  A large GLBT population?  A large non-christian population?  Who exactly decides what diversity is or is not important?  Which groups represent 'real' Americans?


[ Parent ]
Inevitability (0.00 / 0)
"There's a terrible sense of inevitability about this" - that's how one of my table mates summed up the night, no doubt, getting an extraordinary amount of pressure to endorse Clinton. 

This inevitability acts from the top on down, which is my problem with her campaign.  She actually made the claim she's running a grassroots campaign.  I don't like it when the party establishment picks the nominee.

The de facto nominee strategy is something that affects the general electorate alot more, I think.  By acting and speaking like she is the party and she is the nominee, she does not have to acknowledge or prove herself against the other candidates.  For anyone watching her speech on C-SPAN, you wouldn't get the impression that she believes she has to prove herself to the democratic primary voters.

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship


[ Parent ]
well (4.00 / 1)
that's a strategy.  A very good one, too.

Someone on MyDD (I think) did an excellent post about the GOP Feild.  THeir argument was that anyone who thinks that GOP Voters are issues voters is dead wrong.  THey said that the reason Guliani is doing so well is obviously not because of his positions, but because of his atitude.  He has a way of acting like a leader, acting strong, unapologetic, and constantly on the attack.

That's why GW Bush was so popular.  It wasn't because of his intellegence (obviously), it was because he represented stregnth.  Even if he makes a mistake, even if he's polling at 29%, he acts as if the whole country is behind him.  He calls his opponents terroists, and puts them on the defensive.

TPM calls it the Bitch Slap theory of politics.  The story always was: Republican Attacks, Democrat... Defends?  Waffles? Caves?  Who wanted to be on the wimpy side?

Americans have a very dark authoritarian strak.

I get the Impression that the Hilalry Camp knows this, and is very wisely trying to act in an unappologetic way.  See her Iraq stance.  She will refuse to admit that she made a mistake because she doesn't want to look weak.  There's a wisdom to it.

Of course, one of the reasons she's not ym favorite candidate is that I think this is a horrible quality to have in a President, exactly because of how the last six years turned out.  IE: What will Hillary's Iraq be?  Hillary's Enron?  Hillary's Scooter Libby?


[ Parent ]
A fundraiser is a fundraiser (0.00 / 0)
A house party or a town hall is a better forum for seeing and evaluating a candidate. The purpose of the 100 Club FUNDRAISER is to raise money for the NHDP's operations. That's why there were many supporters of other candidates, e.g. Jim Demers who is supporting Obama, at the event.And they all seemed to be having a good time. There is always a keynote speaker at these fundraisers and it's normal for the keynote speaker to be the center of attention. As for the elected officials who joined Hillary on the stage, they didn't look uncomfortable to me, and I bet 9 out of 10 will end up supporting Hillary anyway.

Well I know two of them, at least, (0.00 / 0)
have already endorsed other candidates.  I also would expect that to get that far, you gotta have a damned good poker face.

Jim's a good guy too - it'd be interesting to get his takeaway from that night, compared to all the ones he's been to over the years.

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship


[ Parent ]
d (0.00 / 0)
I disagree about there being many supporters of other candidates there, it was pretty obvious to me that the Clinton camp outnumbered any other candidate by a margin of about 10:1 at the event. 

Second, if I were a betting man I'd accept your bet, and I'd probably put my entire life savings on it. 


[ Parent ]
Jay Buckey (0.00 / 0)
Jay Buckey was at the Dinner working the crowd. He was being introduced around by Ambassador George Bruno. I wonder if that is an endorsement from George over the other senate candidate Katrina Swett?

I heard that the Swett people were visible but I did not see them. Not sure if any Marchand activity was going on.

Buckey handed out a campaign business card with "Buckey 08  Senate Exploratory Committee."  It gave an email address of exploring@buckey08.com.

I did not get to speak to him very long.  He might have benefited from all the vocal praise throughout the evening for Ray Buckley.

Ray Buckley/Jay Buckey  - Get it?


You may be on to something... (0.00 / 0)
Their names were already confused by someone on Swing State Project recently.

birch, finch, beech

[ Parent ]
Katrina Swett (4.00 / 2)
Her people were out in force. "Swett for Senate" was another sticker I had to turn down several times. Not that I'm against her, I just haven't sized up the field yet.

BTW, my first reaction on seeing "Swett for Senate" was "Which one?"

I thought it was hilarious seeing Dick and Katrina interviewed together at Hodes' victory party election night. Hodes himself was the winner and had to be gracious, but the Swetts just couldn't contain their glee at watching Bass go down. Neither could I, of course, but I'm not trying to be a politician.


[ Parent ]
Scott Lehigh of the Globe (0.00 / 0)
covers the event.

He asked people who might be a "sleeper" candidate. Most often mentioned: Richardson.


TROLLS (4.00 / 2)
So obviously andyj isn't a troll.

Some of the language in his first comment was unfortunate because stuff like:

None of this surprised me though.  The more I've been talking to higher ups who aren't falling for her, the more I've come to accept that she'll do and say anything to win.

is ad hominem, and also supports the Repub talking points on Hillary.

But mixed in with that, and underneath the abrasive tone, were some reactions I appreciated and I wish we could have gotten to that discussion. But I think the initial tone killed it.

Sorry to be all Judge Judy here. But yeah, stay away from the ad hominem. And if someone goes ad hominem, try to coax them into their valid points if you can. We know andyj, so my thought is sometimes the best response is to say I think 90% of what you said is not substantive and possibly ad hominem, but let's talk about your valid points.





Thank you (0.00 / 0)
and I apologize for detracting from legitimacy.  As far as saying things that the media has also said, I insist that these were conclusions I drew on my own. 

My impression of an ad hominem attack is 'attacking the messenger, not the message'.  I may have used a very inflammatory tone, but I swear I (initially) gave some examples of statements that could back up what I said about her.

I'd like to also insist that I don't like what the media says about her.  It makes it very difficult for people like me to make their own evaluations of her and have them taken seriously.

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship


[ Parent ]
No, I agree (4.00 / 1)
And ad hominem is a weird thing -- I mean, I think it's fine to point out a candidate lies, but then for some reason we can't call them a liar? We can say they changed their position, but we can't call them flip-floppers? And we can say they said x to y to win, but we can't say "they'll do or say anything to win?".

Pretty thin gruel at times.

But it makes sense to me, and I'll be happy if we can stick with it.

As I said though, apart from the tone, I think you were saying valid things -- there's an awful lot of concern about this presumptive nominee thing and we have to learn to talk about it. Although, I think ultimately the race is far more open than it looks right now, so this issue will probably go away.

ALthough I'm loathe to restart this conversation, a good comparison might be the JJ Dinner? If you went to both, how did they compare? And if they were different, could that be that, despite what you and I see, that some people find Hillary far more charismatic than Kerry, etc?

Like I said, I'm loathe to resart the thread, but having not gone to the event, that's what I'd like to know about it.

I'd note too that I went to the victory party in Dec., and that was very clearly an Obama rally at times -- so I think the line getting blurred may be par for the course. You don't pay $100 to see a speaker you dislike; the room will tend to stack with supporters.





[ Parent ]
A little snarky humor (preface to thin skins) (0.00 / 0)
I was upset at Hillary's speech. No, whosoever crafted that one has written in much better content. Consider  what a Washington Post article last week by Dana Milbank called the Trite and True.http://www.washingto...

I only got to watch on CSAPN Sunday night, but was upset about the lack of equal pandering time given...look we know she can do a Mid-Western accent becuase that's where she's from, and we know from her Selma Sermon that her years in Little Rock gave her a Southern Fried down home accent thang, but she never even tried to sound New Hampshah. What's up with that ? I feel dissed. At least try to say Boskwine, or Tookey ifn you want my vote.

Next time, there may be no next time.


[ Parent ]
I clicked your link (0.00 / 0)
it said Kank...but I knew that...
do you know what 'swamp deer' is ??

Next time, there may be no next time.

[ Parent ]
actually (0.00 / 0)
its "kang uh maw gus", if you read a bit further.  'Kank' is the short version. 

Most outsiders say "kang uh mang us"


[ Parent ]
Do you mean 'swamp donkey'? (4.00 / 1)
You're talking about moose, right? Or something different?

[ Parent ]
Keep it clean, please n/t (0.00 / 0)


It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship

[ Parent ]
"swamp donkey" (0.00 / 0)
:P  Check out the facebook group "Munching Mange", then you'll understand

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship

[ Parent ]
YUP (0.00 / 0)
Moose

Next time, there may be no next time.

[ Parent ]
Haha, yea I completely agree (0.00 / 0)
this discussion has been wearing me out, but I think you're raising really good questions though.

I did in fact attend the JJ dinner, and wrote about it afterwards on my blog.

Now to compare..

The energy level obviously wasn't the same at this dinner. It's been over 4 months since we won the majority, and we are now feeling the weight of our nation's troubles wearing down.  People are also being very critical and calculating with regards to other groups inside the party.  This applies to both campaigns and governing bodies.

Hillary's speech did not get the kind of applause that Kerry's did.  Obviously the nature of their speeches were different.  Still, from my vantage point over against the right wall, I noticed markedly less audience participation, with mostly elected officials standing for the applause lines.  The hundred or so people sitting around me didn't budge much at all, not even clapping.  Their concentration was fixed on Hillary and they appeared to be observing her carefully.

The campaign went to great lengths to generate rockstar-like buzz around Hillary, the complete opposite of the laid-back atmosphere surrounding John Kerry after his speech.

The impression of overwhelming support was recurrent in her language and the language of her supporters there.  Her speech didn't really justify the amount of praise it received afterwards, in my opinion. 

Arnie Arneson had it only half-right when she called it a "generic Democrat speech".  It was full of platitudes and mild condemnation of the Bush administration, but the language that her speech was framed in was what made it fairly unique.  The "presumptuous nominee" tone of her speech struck me as arrogant in some ways.  Not to mean she doesn't have a shot at winning, but that she was acting like she didn't have to convince the Democratic party that she should be president.

So all in all, these events were very different.

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship


[ Parent ]
and that (0.00 / 0)
'matters'

Next time, there may be no next time.

[ Parent ]

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