Hallelujah? The Heathen Vermonters Beat Us

I'm more interested in how religious people are than how many identify with one. (4.00 / 1)

I'll bet those "non-religious" numbers go up dramatically if you include people who were raised in a certain religion, with parents of varying degrees of religiousness, and now only celebrate one or two holidays.  How big a part of your life is it?  That's the real issue.  I wonder what percent of people in each state go to religious services every week.

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by: This Was The Moment @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 18:07:45 PM CDT

Sorry, Dean, I'm not going to set snark aside (4.00 / 1)

This constant drumbeat of snide remarks directed at people of faith is tiresome and counterproductive. Many of us came to our political beliefs largely as a result as a result of our religious principles, and we are more than a little tired of having our beliefs either equated with the Falwells and Huckabees of the world or simply mocked out of hand.

Both President Obama and Vice President Biden are very open about the role that Christianity played in forming their public persona. Martin Luther King and Jimmy Carter took Jesus' message of peace and sought to bring it into being on earth as in heaven. Are they to be the target of mocking and snippy comments from the intellectual set?


America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand. -Harry Truman

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by: Peter Sullivan @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 18:28:34 PM CDT

This homily would be appropriate (4.00 / 3)

if somebody was gloating that the percentage of people who call themselves religious was now a small minority.

But instead, the "least religious" state still has twice as many people calling themselves church members.

Dean's diary, I believe, is simply a happy sigh of relief that we are reaching the point where public figures do not have to genuflect to the religious authorities.

We are not there yet, as Reverend Warren's role demonstrated. But in another generation or two, we may actually get to the country that the Founding Fathers envisioned.

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by: elwood @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 18:35:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

And the elitist snark continues (0.00 / 0)

"Homily", Elwood?

America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand. -Harry Truman

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by: Peter Sullivan @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 19:07:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes, "homily." (0.00 / 0)

I'm used to nagging about having inferior religious values, coming from people with more credentials than you.

And no, I'm not an elitist.

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by: elwood @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 19:11:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes, you are an elitist (0.00 / 0)

Do you know what my credentials, theological or otherwise, are?

Didn't think so.

The mere fact that you seem to want to bring that topic up only confirms that you have a certain disdain for people who follow certain religious traditions.

And where did I mention your religious values?

Oh, right. I didn't.

Heck, I didn't even mention my own denominational affiliation.

America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand. -Harry Truman

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by: Peter Sullivan @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 19:19:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Read your own comment (0.00 / 0)

Perhaps you didn't, before posting it.

Your sneering tone about the "intellectual set" certainly did attack the religious values of Dean and the "set" that you seem to include me in.

Perhaps you are a priest or rabbi, Mr. Sullivan. One of those unusual men of the cloth who finds "homily" an insult.

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by: elwood @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 19:27:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I have no idea what you are talking about. (4.00 / 1)

Huckabee made tracks in Iowa; he didn't here.  There are demographic reasons for that that are interesting.

How is that mocking religion?

Or, if I'm going to be a straw man for atheism (I am not an atheist), should I put away the Dante I've been picking through tonight?

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by: Dean Barker @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 20:50:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

What snark? (4.00 / 1)

The nonreligious are a disenfranchised minority in this country.  Our government and our political process does not respect the legitimacy of secular life, or of the thought that one can be morally grounded without religion.  People must profess faith to be seriously considered for high office.  God is ubiquitous on our money and in symbols of our nation.  I don't count myself as an atheist, but I do believe that freedom of religion includes the freedom to choose none (atheists) or to reserve judgment (agnostics).

(Note that I say disenfranchised, not discriminated against, because I'm not comparing it to the discrimination faced by other groups.)

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by: This Was The Moment @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 22:19:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

once again (4.00 / 1)

even on this site, we see how religion is often an engine of intolerance.

In 2004, a local minister went on his (then) cable TV show and told his TV flock that I was going to burn in hell. Yep, he mentioned me by name.

What horrible crime against humanity had I committed? I wrote an editorial congratulating new NH Episcopal Bishop Gene Robinson.

Religion should not be how we choose presidents. I look forward to the day when our nation is adult enough to move beyond that.

Given the recent events in Brazi, Peter, this might be a drum you should refrain from beating.  

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by: susanthe @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 19:31:45 PM CDT

I'm not agnostic (4.00 / 2)

I believe that David Ortiz is God.  And I worship him at least 162 times a year.

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by: Dartmouth Dem @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 23:22:39 PM CDT

Whom the Gods would destroy (0.00 / 0)

They first make Red Sox fans.

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by: elwood @ Tue Mar 10, 2009 at 17:50:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]