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9 Comments: Merit Pay for Teachers

by: elwood

Wed Mar 18, 2009 at 22:11:22 PM EDT


I caught part of Laura Knoy's show on NHPR today, discussing merit pay in the public schools. Obama has endorsed the idea.

There have been a few public school teachers in my family. They all worked here in New Hampshire; Obama's experience in Chicago was undoubtedly different.

I come to a different conclusion than the President: I think the idea is foolish, ignorant, and insulting.

elwood :: 9 Comments: Merit Pay for Teachers
  1. I've spent most of my career in the private sector. In that time I have never had my annual raise or opportunity for promotion based on the sort of crisp clear metrics that 'merit pay' proponents claim we can have for teachers. Maybe that's because no business professors at the Wharton School have figured out an effective, quantitative merit rating system.
  2. But I've never worked in sales. That's the one area I know of, where compensation is closely tied to simple numeric ratios agreed upon in advance.
  3. I gather there are plum territories and assignments for people in sales. One of the things I worry about with merit pay is: the incentive for individual teachers to find groups of privileged students that you can expect to succeed no matter how effective you are. There will also be "bad territories:" generally, I'm guessing, the kids who most need help.

  4. Every now and then newspapers - the Union Leader, but other papers who should be ashamed of themselves too - print the salaries of the school teachers right alongside their names. It's a matter of public record; that's a solid story. (It's also a cheap story that requires no shoe leather and analysis at all, a gossip column moved to the front page.)
  5. As a private sector worker, I've never had my salary printed in the paper as gossip fodder. But if we institute a merit system for teachers, those scores will end up on the front page.  It won't just be Miss Beasley's salary - the seventh-graders will be whispering about her merit rating too.
  6. This way of treating teachers? It's a big part of why I am not a teacher.

  7. Let's stipulate: there are bad, burned-out, and lazy teachers. Now let's think and further stipulate: merit pay doesn't eliminate them.  It lets them continue with lower raises each year.
  8. Oh, the plan doesn't stop there? You expect it to grow and allow firing low-rated teachers despite tenure? That could be a good idea, I suppose. Why are the proponents hiding that part of the plan, if it exists?
  9. If merit pay for teachers is such a great idea blocked by a powerful public teachers union - why isn't it the standard in private schools? Why isn't it the standard in colleges and universities? These other, similar institutions in much different political and economic environments  haven't found a Magic Scorecard...
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thanks, elwood (4.00 / 1)
The comments at the NHPR website are worth looking at:
http://www.nhpr.org/node/24059...

I agree with you completely. Obama couldn't be more wrong about this. In a state like NH, it would be particularly ugly, because of the way we fund education.  


The timing was bad... (4.00 / 1)
The same day that idea was discussed on the Exchange, we had the CEO of AIG appearing on CSPAN explaining why several dozen financial professionals who by any standards were total failures should still get multimillion dollar bonuses.

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Thanks for all the fish

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[ Parent ]
All of your points are well taken and quite valid. (0.00 / 0)
Soon we'll be hearing demands for merit pay for police officers and firefighters.

How will we measure that? By how many arrests are made or tickets given, or how many suspects are tasered?

And will firefighters be graded on the number of fires they extinguish?

Perhaps legislators will be graded based on how many laws they introduce and their success in getting them passed.  And bureaucrats will be rewarded according to the number of people they turn away and/or deny government assistance.

It all smacks of Republicanism.


My thoughts (0.00 / 0)
a couple weeks old, but relevant maybe:

http://mikecaulfield.com/2009/...




Not happening (0.00 / 0)
I say pick your battles.  This one's not going to happen.  

Obama has put so many conditions on his support of this initiative that it's hardly worth considering.  I view this as a rhetorical device used by Obama to draw support to other initiatives.  It's a safe bet for him...NEA is STRONG LIKE BULL...they aren't going to roll over and he's not going to take them on.

The real battle in education will be for public charter schools.  I expect that's where the Taxpayer Coalition in NH will start to put some pressure.  I'm not a fan of slippery slope arguments, but charter schools in NH are a slippery slope.


Children are not widgets. (4.00 / 2)
Repeat: Children are not widgets. They are not manufactured products. Education is not a business in the sense that manufacturing autos, or any other product is a business.

I don't understand why Americans think everything and anything is a business. Business is business, and that is how it should be. But somethings are not and education is one of them.

The root of the English word educate is from the Latin,  educare,  which means to draw out. (bold mine)

the word educate is directly derived from the Latin word educare, which was constructed by combining the two words, ex and ducere.  The literal translation of educate is to draw out of, lead out of, etc.  The Romans considered educating to be synonymous with drawing knowledge out of somebody or leading them out of regular thinking.  The Romans developed the noun, educatio from the verb educare.

Notice it doesn't mean to stuff in, and then "measure what's been stuffed in" by standardized tests (the creation and selling of which is a business).

The problem is there is no truly objective way of measuring how a teacher "performs". The tally-man can't tally the bananas here and pay on that scale. And evaluators are not thoroughly objective, either.

I agree that the longest serving are not necessarily the best, but we'd have to change our entire way of thinking to solve this problem.

I guess we need to educate ourselves, in the Roman sense before the policies will make any sense.


"Merit Pay" (0.00 / 0)
If I may, I think unions need to read the writing on the wall. There is just no argument to be made against the concept of people being paid more if they're better than average at what they do.

Accordingly, I think unions need to enter the merit pay discussion to broaden it and help define it.


Prevailing wages (0.00 / 0)
It is hard to argue that those with the same job description should have various pay for anything other than time in service.

That said, math and science teachers are in short supply and distressed schools are more of a challenge to work in. So, maybe "merit" isn't the best way to incentivize teaching. Maybe there should be differentials for teachers that take on tougher assignments.

Making peer teachers compete for compensation is an odd idea. It works in pro-sports, but likely not in our schools.

www.KusterforCongress.com - www.paulhodesforsenate.com

www.nikitsongas.com - www.devalpatrick.com


[ Parent ]
Fair enough (0.00 / 0)
Once you recognize any differentials, though, I don't think you can exclude merit from the discussion.

But how does merit get defined, fairly? I don't have the answer.


[ Parent ]
Sort of (4.00 / 2)
I'm with you in spirit. There's a couple things that have to change with pay. The first is it is set up (like much academic pay) to benefit the long-timers and impoverish newcomers. We often talk about how poorly teachers are paid. But the distribution of that is lumpy -- teachers of ten or fifteen years experience get paid quite well in many districts, whereas third year teachers (and there is some research to show there is not that much improvement in teaching after year three) -- third year teachers are paid less than Borders employees.

That's idiotic, for people with the same job expectations managing the same size class. It's a feudal system, and it persists I think because after people suffer through the early injustice of poverty level pay, they somewhat unsurprisingly feel they deserve their place in the winner's circle.

But of course the agressive dispersion of that pay scale keeps quality people out, and virtually bars everybody but a twenty-two year old childless single person from entering the profession.

Instead of merit pay, why not do what we do in other areas and talk about job responsibilities. The pay differential in the private world based on doing a good versus a great job is minute -- the real pay differential has always been based on repsonsibilities. I don't get paid more because I'm a better coder -- not really -- I get paid more because I am taking on more challenging projects. I am writing more code, or doing code review of my peers, or writing code on more high profile projects. The fact that I have a lower bug rate DOES NOT get me higher pay -- it gets me bigger repsonsibilities, and I am in turn paid better for taking on those challenges.

Here's some things I'm in favor of looking at (not necessarily sold on these, just worthy of consideration):

* Pay teachers with bigger classes more
* Pay teaching that mentor new teachers more
* Pay teachers in poor districts, with challenging students, more than people in middle and upper class districts
* Pay teachers that share their curricular materials more
* Pay teachers which use their classroom activity to engage the community more (go above and beyond the 'reqd' elements)

Etc, etc. In other words, pay teachers more for taking on increasingly demanding work -- instead of what happens now which is often the opposite.

But starting with the term "merit pay" poisons the discussion from the start.

 



[ Parent ]
Well said (0.00 / 0)
Whoever coined "merit pay" is clearly a unionbuster, but there it is -- we lost that round.

But the game is still winnable.



[ Parent ]
I'll add one more to Mike's list: (4.00 / 2)
Pay them more if they consistently demonstrate their own continued learning in quality professional development (both content and method) that they bring back into their teaching and share with others (not just warming a seat in an after-school workshop for 2 hours and calling it learning).

I am always astonished to find that there are teachers who have decided that they are finished with their own learning once they have gotten that graduate degree and the attendant career step.

If we want students to become lifelong learners (a 100% necessity in the present world), then they need to be taught by them.


[ Parent ]
That comment was a good response (0.00 / 0)
to the title of my diary.

It completely ignored the content of it.


[ Parent ]
Not true (0.00 / 0)
My comment may have gone in a slightly different direction, but I read your points. If there is opposition to merit pay, it will most likely come from the teachers' union. So I focused on that, but I wasn't trying to ignore the rest of it.


[ Parent ]
Well, in any case - (4.00 / 1)
I'll go O/T myself to say your instincts on the AIG story were a lot better than mine.

[ Parent ]
Thanks (0.00 / 0)
You know the old saying about us blind pigs finding acorns once in a while. :-!



[ Parent ]

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