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Why I support "the pledge" ...

by: Tony Schinella

Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 17:14:30 PM EDT


Here is a link to a piece I had in the Union Leader in December 2006 explaining why I support the pledge:  
Tony Schinella :: Why I support "the pledge" ...
http://politizine.blogspot.com...

While many may not agree with me and don't think this is the liberal position to take, I beg to differ. My long experience in Massachusetts has proved to me that the best way to go is to stay away from broad-based taxes. Lobbyists are just too strong a force in our governments and even Democrats cannot be counted on to do the best thing for the people [Can anyone say, Democratically-controlled Congress? Why are we still in Iraq when we voted them all in to get us out?].

In this piece, I didn't even talk about the poor and middle class folks who can't afford the implementation of an income or sales tax at this time due to the very high cost of living right now. I don't even talk about the fact that income and/or sales taxes will hurt renters in our state harder than anyone and that renters are some of the poorest people in the state.

The simple fact is that governments have to live frugally right now and make the best with what they have. If state, city and county employees don't like paying more for health care like those of us in the private sector are having to deal with or don't like living with raises that are at the cost of living when those of us in the private sector aren't getting raises or are losing our jobs, well, they can find other jobs and we'll replace them with people who would kill for their safe, cushy jobs. If the state, county, or city governments can't make due with what they are getting, they need to start making cuts like we all have to do in our own households.

Between the beginning of 2007 and now, I have had do all kinds of things to balance our home budget.

I had to make up for the fact that home heating oil is $1-plus per gallon more than last year and due to this very harsh winter, we will have used about one-fifth more than last year.

I've had to find ways to make up for the fact that gas is about $1 more per gallon and that when I changed jobs, not only did a take a small pay cut but I went from a 3 mile daily commute to a 130 mile daily commute just to stay in my field.

Just a few months ago, chicken at Market Basket went from $1.99 per pound to $2.69-$2.79 per pound. Since I usually buy two multi-pound packets a week, chicken will cost us about $150 more per year in 2008 than 2007. So, I stopped buying two packets a week. I just buy one now and we live with less chicken.
In fact, I buy about $25 to $30 less in food each week compared to past years in order to make ends meet. I buy a lot fewer name brands now too since the store brands cost less and are just about as good.
BBQ this summer is really going to suck if I can't afford to splurge a little bit for more chicken and steak.
We also stopped getting food delivered too. Usually, we could swing a pizza every few weeks. Now, I make homemade pizza occasionally - which costs a lot less - and we are lucky to get calzones delivered once every few months, if that. Never mind going out to eat at Hermanos or someplace nice. Haven't done that in more than a year.
The other day when I went into Stop & Shop in Lexington near my office to buy some lunch meat and the prices were between $7.50 and $10 per pound for basic store brand items. I was shocked. How can anyone pay those prices?

Cable got cut back to the basic service, so now I have no C-Span and no news channels which is driving me bats but I needed to save the difference.

We renegotiated our cell phone service with a new company and got new phones and are saving $35 per month compared to last year.

We changed all the light bulbs in the house and shut everything off when not in use which lowered our electric bill substantially after Unitil raised rates by 24 percent a little bit ago. Shutting off the modem, router, and all the power strips, as well as changing the light bulbs, lowered the kwhs by about 40 percent alone.

Now, I'll admit, we should have done some of these things anyway, like the energy conservation and the phones. But the other changes are an inconvenience and affect our quality of life. But that is the cost of living in modern America just like it was in historical America when folks made sacrifices to make ends meet. That is what we have had to do to survive now. If sales or income taxes are implemented, we are going to get hammered by it and we can't pay anymore.  

Lastly, my family is not rich so I'm not defending the pledge to keep all of our money hidden away from the taxman. And I don't want to seem like I'm crying about life. We have chosen the lives we have - beyond what market forces have handed us - and in many ways, we are quite happy.

But the simple fact is that we need to be able to survive. Many people in New Hampshire, including us, can't pay anymore in taxes. Governments and those citizens who are clamoring for new taxes are just going to have to learn to live with what they are already collecting.

In closing, I would add, for those citizens who want to pay an income tax, feel free. Set aside your 5 percent per week [or whatever percent] and mail it to Gov. Lynch or the Fish & Game Dept. or your local school. Do it as a group if you like and give the money together to some agency that you think should be better funded.

In 2002, the media per capita income in New Hampshire was about $34,000-plus [it is probably more now]. At 5 percent, $1,700-plus can directly be put into something you choose to fund. If 20 of you get together, you can pay for another teacher at your local school [sans benes of course]. Probably all the posters on Blue Hampshire could come up with $300k to $400k annually for a state agency they choose to fund.

But please don't take any more from us. I'm sorry, but we can't afford it and will do everything we can to fight it to keep from paying it.  

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What ignorant baloney. (0.00 / 0)


well said (0.00 / 0)
I went to a public school in Manchester I know what poor funding looks like.

fyi the storebrands and the name brands are basically the same.

NH is now 5th in the nation for highest median income

$60,411

we rank higher than MA. the national mean is $48,023


[ Parent ]
Deconstructing: (0.00 / 0)
  1. Your experience in Massachusetts doesn't prove anything at all about the effect of broad-based taxes. We have only one example of what happens without them: New Hampshire. Among other things, what happens is: we can't fund our schools.
  2. The claim that public sector workers have "cushy jobs" is smug in its ignorance. They don't. They have traded lower salaries for more job security and basic benefits. If you think they have it so damn easy, go work for the state.
  3. Gee, you've had to cut back on your household budget. You seem to think that makes you uniquely able to educate the rest of us about basic economics. It doesn't. Most of us have had to cut back - and those of us with basic skills in arithmetic have figured out that our remaining income would go farther with a fairer tax structure. Whether you own a home or rent, the property tax is incredibly regressive and takes its biggest proportional bite out of those in the lower middle class.
  4. "Don't take any more from US"?  Who is US? The immigrants from Massachusetts who think they can escape paying for the support of their communities?


Umm, I was born and raised in Concord (0.00 / 0)
Don't call me ignorant. You don't know me or anything about me. I speak facts. If you choose not to accept them, so be it.
"Us" is me and my wife. I don't speak for anyone else.
Everyone I know who works in a state or federal job has it pretty good: Better health care benefits; at least the same or better salary. What state are you living in?
Household cutbacks: The point? We don't have any more money in our household to pay for broad-based taxes. It is simple as that.
If NH switches to an income or sales tax, rents won't go down when property taxes supposedly go down. The simple fact is that rents will stay the same or even go up. So, renters will now pay the higher rents AND the broad-based taxes.
Lastly, I find it amusing that you don't bother to even comment on giving up 5 percent of your salary now to pay for expected services. I can simply assume that you want other to pay for your services instead of paying them for yourself. If this is the Democratic Party of the future, you can quickly count me out.  

Politizine.com

[ Parent ]
I called your logic and arguments ignorant (0.00 / 0)
and they are.

I didn't bother to comment on your "idea" of your neighbors voluntarily funding state services. You want me to? Okay.

That has never worked anywhere under any state revenue system: based on sales, income, property, or simple generosity.  It's a further example of ignorance in your argument.


[ Parent ]
Average pay per job in NH, 2005: (0.00 / 0)
$43,912. Link.

Average public sector pay in NH, 2005: $38,294. Link.

Those "cushy jobs" pay some 12% less than average (and the average includes them: there is a bigger cut versus just private sector.)


GSFTC Video (0.00 / 0)
Tony, I'm curious if you have had the chance to see the GSFTC video?

I can certainly agree with the concept of living within ones means, but what happens when the needs exceed the means? or, the means is exceedingly unfair to part of the citizenry?

Our highway system is well behind in maintenance, Schools are in tough shape across the state and other needs of "the commons" are in need of additional investments.

Sometime the problem can not be solved by cuts, there are times you need additional revenue.

I'm afraid reliance on the property tax is going to lead to a "bartertown" environment with no safety net.

Hope > Fear




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I just watched the video (0.00 / 0)
I hasn't changed my mind. I'm sorry folks can't afford their property taxes. They should consider downsizing their houses and moving to some of those other towns which are cheaper, or getting second jobs to pay their bills because that is essentially what a broad base tax is going to do for the rest of us. Take a little time to fend for yourself instead of just passing your burden onto others. All you are doing by supporting this is transferring the burden to renters and the affluent. So, half the folks are going to get really screwed to subsidize people who are lucky enough to buy homes and own them but don't want to pay for the taxes on those homes. Wow.

I know Mark Fernald who is the treasurer of this coalition quite well. I saw his concept of an income tax in 2000 when he ran for governor against Jeanne Shaheen. I asked him a lot of questions at an event in Rindge we both appeared at and he had no answers to the questions. All he kept insinuating was that rich people would be the only ones really affected by the income tax and it just doesn't work that way. What they have done in Mass. proves it. The "rich" are not the hardest hit by the income tax. They can afford the income tax. Regular folks are hurt by it. Big corporations don't even pay the income tax and the small ones are nailed by it.

What isn't discussed in the video is why folks in Exeter pay more than folks in Sunapee or Wolfeboro. First, they pay more in Exeter because there are very expensive homes in Sunapee and Wolfeboro keeping the rates down on the normal houses. So, those normal homeowners got lucky. Or, they paid twice as much for the four bedroom than the person in Exeter did but the benefit is the lower property tax. I would also bet anything that there are more kids in Exeter and therefore, education costs are higher. That is what happens in the bigger towns. It would also be interesting to compare things like class sizes and other drivers of costs to see what the differences are. Maybe some towns are more frugal than others.  

As far as the highways go, isn't that why I am paying a lot more for tolls now compared to last year? As well, that's what gas taxes are for - not the tolls. The tolls should be used for the toll roads. I have been on most of main roads in New Hampshire in the last two years between North Conway and Nashua; from Concord to Claremont; to Manch to Seabrook  and I haven't been on one that has been that bad. Sure, city streets are bad. But the highways and interstates are fine. But, if we need the roads repaired - and frankly, our state roads are much better than Mass. roads and they have broad base taxes and higher gas taxes than we do - then we should raise gas taxes to pay for the repairs. Has the Legislature done that? No, they raised the tolls so the people who use the toll roads pay to repair ALL the roads for everyone else. So, those folks who don't pay the toll get free road repairs. They didn't even bother to put up a new toll at the Nashua/Mass. border to nail a whole slew of people who use Route 3 but don't pay for it. These are the kinds of tricks that politicians play and they will do it with an income or sales tax too.

As far as "the commons" goes, I'm one of them. We live paycheck to paycheck in our house. I know what we are all going through. But, I also know what it once was like in this state. I lived here during the bad 1970s and 1980s and, frankly, things are a lot better now. If people really think things are that bad now, they have forgotten what it was like to live in this state during the energy crisis or during the recession of the early 1980s. I knew friends who lived in houses with dirt floors in Warner and a few families who had to hover around a wood stove in one room during the winter in Hill because they had no heat and couldn't afford oil. I knew kids who were lucky to get maybe two new shirts and two new pairs of pants each year for school. They didn't go to Old Navy or the Gap. They were lucky to get jeans from Sears. I don't even want to talk about how difficult some of those years were for our family. We are living pretty high considering the bad old days. Do we really want to go back to those days? I don't.

And no one has answered the renters question yet. What do renters do when their rent doesn't go down after property tax relief but they now have to pay an income or sales tax? Those people get the shaft. As well, none of the existing taxes will go away if a broad base tax is passed. They will just find new ways of spending the money or just shift the money. If the coalition actually thinks that those other 22 taxes are going away if a broad-based tax is passed, they are even more foolish than I thought.

If an income tax is passed, folks like me who live in NH but work in Mass. will have to pay there and here. We will have an even higher burden than others in the state. We will get double-taxed! I just sat down here and did some of the math. Here is how it will hit regular folks: If 5 percent of my already stretched income is taken from me, I'm not going to have money for oil next year - at this year's prices - and I won't be able to afford to commute to work for two months out of the year. Oops, there goes my job! Or, I won't be able to afford oil next year and I won't be able to buy food for 12 weeks out of the year. Sorry son, no milk or cereal or fruit or bread for you this month. We had to subsidize homeowners in other parts of the state. Sorry, broad based taxes are not the answer.

Mike, I'll counter your question with a question: What happens when the means can't meet the needs?  

Politizine.com


[ Parent ]
You are... misinformed. (0.00 / 0)
If an income tax is passed, folks like me who live in NH but work in Mass. will have to pay there and here.

That is just plain flat-out wrong.

Massachusetts credits out-of-state workers with whatever they pay their own state in income taxes. If Massachusetts assesses you $3000 in income tax, but you have already paid New Hampshire $2500, your MA bill is reduced to $500. Your total tax is unchanged.

That has been true for decades.

It's really a shame that someone who has done so little homework in understanding this issue is busy speading misinformation by writing op-eds and blog posts.


[ Parent ]
Your willingness to pay (4.00 / 1)
MA income tax nullifies your argument, IMHO. Why are you willing to pay income tax for the benefit of the citizens of the Commonwealth, but not NH? Shouldn't the citizens of MA also pick themselves up by their bootstraps and their kids walk both ways uphill to school and write on slates over a fire?

I'm not convinced an income tax is the panacea many think it is, but I don't buy any of your arguments.


[ Parent ]
Well said, jbd. (0.00 / 0)
Tony did have one good, if tangential idea, though: a toll near the Mass border to collect revenue from out-of-staters who are still getting a good deal because they come to NH to escape their own Commonwealth's sales tax.

--
@DougLindner


[ Parent ]
As well as people who live in Nashua who don't pay (0.00 / 0)
because they live south of the Bedford tolls or don't live in Merrimack. Instead of raising the Bedford toll to $1, they should have installed a toll at the border and charged everyone 25 cents. The state would raise more revenue than just nailing the Bedford people. I would pay it either way. But at least with this idea, Nashua folks who get onto a short stint of the turnpike could pay some too. Share the pain.

As far as the Mass. non-residency exemption goes, you're not quite correct. I have been filling out the tax forms for years and I have never seen that exemption. You did get a small bit back but it isn't anywhere near what my wife and I would be paying here.  

Politizine.com


[ Parent ]
Here's how it works (0.00 / 0)
in Maine, which has an income tax:
(pdf).

I believe MA used to allow non-residents to take a credit for taxes "paid to another jurisdiction." Now that credit is limited to part-time residents - see Schedule F - and the assumption is that the other state will give a credit for taxes paid to work in MA. Maine does that; New Hampshire would too (it's standard operating procedure among neighboring states).


[ Parent ]
did not mean to ignore the question back at me (0.00 / 0)
I guess seeing stats like the fact that we have one of the lowest tax burden in New England, leads me to believe that is a false choice.

It's not that we cant afford it, it's just that it is raised in a backwards manner that encourages I got mine, you get yours behavior.

Hope > Fear




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[ Parent ]
There's about $249 million in 'free' money (0.00 / 0)
That's how much New Hampshire residents pay in commuter income tax to Massachusetts.

If New Hampshire had an income tax of its own, that quarter-billion dollars would stay here. The workers would pay no more.

A 5.3% income tax here would bring in about $2.5 billion. 10% of that would simply be re-capturing the income taxes paid by New Hampshire residents working in Massachusetts.


As a token of our appreciation (4.00 / 2)
Toll Booths!

Get it?....Tokens. ;v)

Whack-a-mole, anyone?


[ Parent ]
I used to commute to a MA job. (0.00 / 0)
I suspect that NH residents commuting to MA pay most of the tolls. Twice a day, five days a week.

I know we try to fashion our taxes to get out-of-staters to pay disproportionately. But I don't think it works with the tolls.


[ Parent ]
Tolls only on Pike and Tunnels for now (0.00 / 0)
so it probably doesn't snag too many granite staters, as I would wager they mostly work either the 495 belt of the 128 belt.

Have heard rumors of tolls on 95, 93 & 3. That would smart the wallet, eh.

Maybe we have Primary jealousy?

Whack-a-mole, anyone?


[ Parent ]
Oh, I was talking about the NH tolls. (0.00 / 0)
My money went to the Hooksett booth.

[ Parent ]
Living in Manchester, I get hit both ways. (0.00 / 0)
Hooksett and Bedford

--
@DougLindner


[ Parent ]
Living in Concord I get hit twice too (0.00 / 0)
Hooksett and Bedford, each way.

So, I pay more on the tolls now to subsidize repairs on Route 101, or 202, or Route 3 north of Tilton, or whatever, all which I rarely use.

The folks who use those roads? They don't pay for the repairs at all.

The state should have raised the gas tax and not the tolls to pay for the road repairs.  

Politizine.com


[ Parent ]
My Route (0.00 / 0)
119/12/140/190

I will say MA does a better job with snow removal/road treatment on MA side of 12 than we do on ours.

Hope > Fear




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[ Parent ]
Oh, snap! (0.00 / 0)
Friggin' Big Dig and mandatory healthcare. Can't wait to get those casinos up. Right now we just get ya passing through MA, using the turnpike, on your way to Foxwoods.

Boy I love our brand new schools and lavish municipal services, like curbside trash pick up.

Elwood, on those "tax flight" conservatives moving to NH, do you have a age statistic. Wondering if older folks, on or near fixed incomes, are fleeing the MA property tax?

Ooops.

Man am I snarky, today.

Whack-a-mole, anyone?


[ Parent ]
I've been told, but have not read, that NH is the 9th oldest State. (0.00 / 0)
Which could also be because our schools don't teach state history (or state and local civics), and kids are not instilled with a sense of pride in their state...so they leave.

--
@DougLindner


[ Parent ]
That's partly because (4.00 / 1)
we live longer.

[ Parent ]
typical GOP rhetoric (0.00 / 0)
If you can't afford it - MOVE, or get a second job. Then there's the typical blame: you should have planned better, gotten a better education, not had kids (but don't get an abortion!), shouldn't have had a medical emergency....there's always a way to blame the working stiff.

Well, Mr. Schinella - in the northern part of the state, it's hard enough to find one job, never mind two. That said, many folks have several lousy paying jobs. They still can't afford housing. And if they can't afford housing - how on earth do you expect them to be able to afford to move?

And why should they? Why should people be uprooted from their families, and their communities because of the infantile Republitarian worship of Ayn Rand? We aren't all in this alone - but that rugged individualism meme perpetuated by the GOP is responsible for the dire straits we find ourselves in as a nation - financially, socially, and politically.  

member of the professional left  


Susan, with all due respect (0.00 / 0)
You don't know what you're talking about. I'm not a follower of Ayn Rand and what I say isn't Republican rhetoric.

I'm a Naderite and an independent. I regularly have voted for Democrats and have a long history of working and organizing for Democrats and progressive indies before becoming a journalist.

My arguments are about common sense and fairness. Implementing an income tax or sales tax will hit renters and people on fixed incomes harder than it will "the rich." As well, why should renters have to subsidize homeowners, which is essentially what this coalition is promoting? When that woman bought that house, she knew what the taxes were going to be when she bought it. She knew what the interest rates would be. If she doesn't want to pay $9k to live in Exeter, than she should move to Sunapee where she will only pay $3k, or whatever was on that video.

The answer for our state is to live within our means and rely on living with less until we get over this bad economic hump.  

Politizine.com


[ Parent ]
Mr. Schinella (0.00 / 0)
You were mighty selective in your response to my post. Just so you know that I noticed.

A sales tax is among the most regressive forms of taxation. I don't support a sales tax - but an income tax is far more fair than our current regressive tax system.

As for living within our means? Horse hockey. We're in the mess we're in because the GOP deliberately and systematically ensured that NH would have insufficient income to adequately fund our state government. While the costs of overhead have increased, the GOP actually cut revenue sources. Eliminating the estate tax was a real piece of brilliance.

If you think that renters aren't paying property tax, you're wrong. Renters are paying exorbitant rents - in part because of a serious housing shortage, and in part because of property taxes.

Common sense and fairness would involve the rich paying their fair share. Can you explain why you don't agree with an income tax?  

member of the professional left  


[ Parent ]
The poor of NH spend 8% (4.00 / 1)
of their income on taxes,

and the rich pay 2%.

The "pledge" allowed that to happen.  I don't understand defending a regressive form of taxation by claiming that a progressive one, which would balance those percentages, will cost us even more money we don't have.

birch, finch, beech


Here's what will happen (0.00 / 0)
If a 5 percent sales tax is implemented, for example, the poor will pay the 8 percent they pay now, plus another 5 percent.

The rich will pay the 2 percent they pay now, plus another 5 percent.

How is it "progressive" or "fair" that the poor pay 13 percent instead of 8 just to get 7 percent instead of 2 from the rich?


Politizine.com


[ Parent ]
Seems like a jaded view (0.00 / 0)
some proposals would target a new tax for education. Which would mean the $2900 Local School Tax and $550 State School tax I paid last year would at least be off set if not designed to go away totally.

Hope > Fear




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[ Parent ]
I don't know anyone who (0.00 / 0)
is advocating the addition of a general sales tax on top of an unmodified current property tax system.


birch, finch, beech

[ Parent ]
Tilting at straw men. (0.00 / 0)
It's a dishonest hobby.

[ Parent ]
getting to fairness (4.00 / 1)
Tony, I don't buy the idea that a sales or income tax would increase the average citizen's tax burden. The state decides what to fund, and then raises the money somehow to pay for it. Since we can't borrow, it's pay as you go, and the only question is where does the money come from. If you have only one source of funds, in this case the property tax, there is tremendous potential for unfairness and inequity to sneak in, as people who are stuck where they are have to pay more than they can afford, or as people who have tremendous resources are only taxed according to their property. The best way out of that box is to institute a mix of taxes that will most closely approximate a person's ability to pay their fair share.

You believe that if other taxes are added, you'll  automatically pay more. That's the fallacy.


This has happened elsewhere ... (0.00 / 0)
There are examples in the original post.

Politizine.com

[ Parent ]

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