Hey There, Mr. Raymond Buckley

Um, no: (4.00 / 5)

You've been running around the State celebrating the fact that registered Dems now outnumber registered Republicans. With respect, that is is not your job.

Your job is to set the terms of the debate. Force everyone to talk about real solutions to real problems.

Increasing the Democratic vote and strength of the Party is Ray's job - and it's Howard's job at the national level.

Setting the terms of the debate? We really don't elect party chairs to do that. We elect Governors and Senators and state reps to do that.

---

by: elwood @ Thu Jan 01, 2009 at 13:18:29 PM CST

Two years of nothing? (0.00 / 0)

Spare us your drama

Democrats in NH have been working hard electing great leaders like Gov. Lynch, Speaker Norelli and the democratic House, Senate President Larsen and the democratic Senate, the executive council, 3 members of congress and a new President.

And it is the chairs job to register dems, that is how you grow the party.

---

by: sdoyle @ Thu Jan 01, 2009 at 14:03:45 PM CST

Talk about the Issues (0.00 / 0)

OK, you've covered up for Mr. Buckley...now, how about speaking to the fact that our party has not acted "Democrat", that Lynch is hiding from the real issues, that House and Senate leaders are irritating the heck out of progressive Dems.

Speak to the issues.

---

by: robsprague @ Thu Jan 01, 2009 at 15:58:12 PM CST

[ Parent ]

They got elected. (3.56 / 9)

Progressives who didn't like the direction of the House, Senate, and Governor had the opportunity to mount primary challenges.

To stay on the sidelines while people won the nominations of the Democratic Party, then complain before they have cast the first vote: that's an empty sort of progressive activism.

---

by: elwood @ Thu Jan 01, 2009 at 16:09:44 PM CST

[ Parent ]

That's Right...Make Your Tent Nice and Small (0.00 / 0)

Again, speak to the issues.  Where is the discussion of property tax relief; where is the solution to funding adequate education; what about additional funding for "Healthy Kids".

Speak to the issues, not to your "Blue Dog Dem" strategy.

---

by: robsprague @ Thu Jan 01, 2009 at 16:38:50 PM CST

[ Parent ]

We have discussed those issues here regularly. (4.00 / 3)

You weren't around at the time, I guess.

As for being a "Blue Dog Dem" who reflexively defends Chairman Buckley: you clearly know my reputation here.

---

by: elwood @ Thu Jan 01, 2009 at 16:52:34 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Even though I am greatful that the Sprinter (4.00 / 1)

is about to make his final sprint (hopefully, but probably not), I would not say that Sen Shaheen "won" her nomination.

J

---

by: Gearfish @ Thu Jan 01, 2009 at 21:20:29 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Winning a nomination covers a lot of ground (0.00 / 0)

including appearing strong enough that other serious candidates don't choose to challenge you.

That was true of Shaheen, Hodes, and Shea-Porter this time. (And it's stretching things to call the challenge to Lynch serious.)

---

by: elwood @ Thu Jan 01, 2009 at 21:30:26 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Let's not gloss over (4.00 / 3)

Regarding Shaheen, there are a sizeable number of folks that aren't happy with the way that all went down. The meek and the polite will hardly spit in the eye of a winner, but it would be wise to consider the seething below the smiles.

Your point, "appearing strong enough that other serious candidates don't choose to challenge you" is well taken. I'll spare you the "bean bag" cliche. Though one should pause for the supporters of the thwarted. They are let down and in the case of a "red carpet primary", they may even be mightily peaved.

Of course, if they still show up, shake hands, fake smile and deliver what's needed, who really cares?

Winning is everything. Especially on the surface.

Whack-a-mole, anyone?

---

by: Jack Mitchell @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 07:45:16 AM CST

[ Parent ]

My point really isn't about the Senate race - (4.00 / 1)

It's about how progressives, or conservatives for that matter, can actually make a difference.

The answer is generally not: "By waiting until the nominations and elections are over, then demanding support of my agenda."

The answer is generally, "By running a candidate in the primary who is closer to my views."

Easy to say, I know. It's expensive to run and established names have a big advantage. But the diarist was talking about state issues - and the advantage of our 400-seat legislature is that campaigns are cheap and manageable.

---

by: elwood @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 08:01:15 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Fran Wendelboe hears you (4.00 / 1)

loud and clear.

As a centrist, I tend to get annoyed by the wingers, but my heart goes out to the left wing. Their heart is totally in the right place. Come on. War, poverty, inequality, sustainability.....the list goes on. Every one a worthy and important cause.

I just can't wrap my head around building a perfected Rome in one day or even one century.

The far right... Let's just say that I consider them domestic enemies.

Whack-a-mole, anyone?

---

by: Jack Mitchell @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 08:25:16 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Rob, a word please...in private. (4.00 / 1)

They take their troll ratings very serious around here. Read this.

Keep your cool. You're in for a rough ride.

Whack-a-mole, anyone?

---

by: Jack Mitchell @ Thu Jan 01, 2009 at 17:01:30 PM CST

Hi Rob (0.00 / 0)

Welcome to BH

Always glad to have new progressives here particularly those willing to speak their mind with their real name.

As Jack mentioned, please note our policy on rating comments on the about us page

Note: Troll rating a comment simply because you disagree with it is considered ratings abuse and is grounds for banning the user.

You should reconsider you rating of Elwood's comment it is clearly not trollish comment.

Mike  

Hope > Fear




Create a free Blue Hampshire account and join the conversation.

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by: Mike Hoefer @ Thu Jan 01, 2009 at 18:07:17 PM CST

TrollI don't even know what a Troll is... (0.00 / 0)

I have no idea how "Troll" came up...did I hit some key?  I don't think I did...Anyway, sorry to insult the guy and didn't mean to!!!!!!!

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by: robsprague @ Thu Jan 01, 2009 at 19:17:38 PM CST

[ Parent ]

It's the rating system just to the right of the (4.00 / 2)

"Reply" link.

If you think a comment is excellent, rate it a four.

If your feelings are less strong, leave it alone.

If you feel the comment was a personal (not a policy) attack, rate it a zero (or "Troll" rating).

BTW, in general I find this diary to be interesting.  As elwood commented earlier, I don't know if the party chair is the person to be lodging the complaint to, though (although you do make a good point about Sununu Senior spouting off the nature of the GOP).  I could see this perhaps be more appropriately titled, e.g., Hey There, Governor Lynch.

Also, please note that in elwood, as in others on this site, you will find bloggers who haven't flinched from criticizing the party, especially on some of the issues you raise.  So the Blue Dog stuff rings false.

birch, finch, beech

---

by: Dean Barker @ Thu Jan 01, 2009 at 19:25:28 PM CST

[ Parent ]

See the box (4.00 / 1)

at the bottom of other's comments. It has the word "none" as the default.

The drop down allows you to rate a comment, 4 or 0.

You accidently gave elwood a 0, which is a troll rating. What a troll is, you can google the answer.

Whack-a-mole, anyone?

---

by: Jack Mitchell @ Thu Jan 01, 2009 at 19:29:38 PM CST

[ Parent ]

You Should At Least Address The Right Person (0.00 / 0)

If you're upset with Governor Lynch, you should address your issues with him.

Ray's job as chair isn't policy, it's electing Democrats, and he's doing an excellent job at that.

Stop passing the buck, if you want Ray's help, help him elect Democrats who will help pass the policy that you want.

If you want the party to change its platform or constitution, there are processes for you to be able to do that yourself at the yearly conventions.

 

---

by: Andrew Sylvia @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 01:50:31 AM CST

4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 (0.00 / 0)

It seems to me that comments such as "Um, no" or "spare us your drama, or "We have discussed those issues here regularly" reveal an objectionable sentiment that their authors get to decide how the rest of us feel, or what might be our concerns. Most of the comments here are at quite a high level of journalism but that is not a requirement. Many times, some printed thing will make me realize some unstated presupposition or revealed bias and I would argue that this is the exact time to comment on it - timely, in context. The complaint that one should start another thread, which is sometimes the source of the troll invective, is inappropriate where most comments are off the cuff. It is nice to stay completely on topic but let's not be anal about it.
In this case, one can conclude that RS feels that Buckley's job is to do the things that he (RS) wants, which may be different than the job description or your opinion. Otherwise, comments on how well he (Buckley) does in other areas (if that is what you believe) are not relevant (though nice and reinforcing) - thus the RS comment to return to his point.
"Stop passing the buck," indicates that the author doesn't in fact know RS and what he has been doing. Or, for that matter, whether it is all he can do or should do. We need all we can get out of everyone we can recruit and now that some of us have rejected the crystal ball as a source of insight into the souls of our increasing majority, how about encouraging even thoughts which disagree with yours? I have a few of them myself. Evidently my skin is thicker than many and I don't back off when slaps such as some of these show up. I would suggest that is also true of RS which should not be interpreted as any reinforcement for a response which may certainly chase others away.
We are in a state (NH) where the statement of liberal sentiments has in the past been slapped down. That has changed. Just look at the Union Leader comments these days. Not only has the majority changed but individuals are sprouting up and stating their concerns in the world's most reactionary newspaper. Quite a relief to me. I still am amazed they publish as many of them as they do.

---

by: xteeth @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 07:13:12 AM CST

Response: (4.00 / 1)

The job of the party chair isn't a question of how you, Rob, or I feel, and it isn't something that I or anyone else here can impose on the crowd. It's a simple matter of the party constitution, the party charter, and the well-understood relationships of party organizations and candidates.

Because of that, any call to "return to the point of the diary" makes no sense. The diary's point was that Ray should somehow become the Conscience of the [Progressive Wing of the] Democratic Party."

---

by: elwood @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 08:07:00 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Adding, on a personal note: (4.00 / 7)

I get a little cheesed when posters start bemoaning that we aren't talking about The Big Issues That Really Matter, and are instead focusing on crass politics or light-hearted comments.

I've spent some serious time putting together diaries on tax policy, the school funding amendments, the death penalty. These diaries don't get a whole lot of traffic. But then when I post lighter fare, folks complain that it's Not Serious.

Life's not fair, I tells ya.

---

by: elwood @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 08:15:03 AM CST

[ Parent ]

And it's not like (0.00 / 0)

they can't raise the Big Issues That Really Matter themselves: anyone can start a diary.

---

by: Alex Gallichon @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 11:48:50 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Instead Of Saying This Is Bad, Why Not Say How To Make It Better? (0.00 / 0)

You're right, Mr. Anon.

I don't know "RS", or what he has been doing. Why doesn't he talk about that rather than these unconstructive invectives? I'd be happy to hit the recommend button if he did that, but instead this post was just a blame rant.

I also don't know about anybody else, but I find it very ironic that someone who asks "encouraging thoughts that disagree with yours" and having "skin thicker than many" cannot abide the opinion that it's far better to make the focus "how can we fix this?" rather than "it's broken, who broke it?"

---

by: Andrew Sylvia @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 13:23:36 PM CST

[ Parent ]

One More Thing, Off Topic (0.00 / 0)

I just want to be honest about a personal hypocrisy of my own here in regards to my first sentence and what I said to Bill Gnade the other day about his ad hominem attack, because when it comes to anons and criticism, i'm no better.

I wish it didn't, but it really bugs me when people want to criticize a "real world" topic without a "real world" name.

Granted, on the internet, anybody can be anyone, but the focus of this blog is on real world politics, not internet politics, and due to that it's inappropriate to serve out criticism without being ready to take it yourself by adding your name to whatever you say if you're going to be critical unless there's a reason why someone has to be an anon (employment security, personal safety, etc.)  

---

by: Andrew Sylvia @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 13:44:07 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Thank You for Your Passion (4.00 / 9)

Dear Mr. Sprague,

Since you chose to communicate with me through www.BlueHampshire.com, I will respond the same.

First, thank you for your passion. You clearly deeply care about progressive causes and that is very important. Each of us who choose to be involved, at any level, were motivated at some point by an issue or a cause and it is important to stay true to our heart.

Second, I do not publicly discuss my conversations with our elected officials. I meet privately with them to offer my observations, advice and support, I do not even share those conversations with other elected officials.

Third, we have fine Democratic elected officials at every level very capable of publicly expressing their ideas, values and proposals. My public role is, in equal parts, to expose the Republican record, espouse a generic Democratic message and be the party cheerleader.

Fourth, other than send out one email and hold one press conference with DNC members Sullivan and Burling I have not been "running around the state celebrating" our becoming the majority party for the first time in NH history.

Once again, thank you for your passion. At a time when too many feel disenfranchised from politics you clearly care deeply. Each of us have a role in the effort to bring progressive leadership and results to our state and I thank you for your commitment.

Please feel free to email me at chairman@nhdp.org or call the NHDP at 603-225-6899.

Thanks,
Ray Buckley
NHDP, State Chair

2012 starts today.

---

by: Ray Buckley @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 12:41:31 PM CST

Progressives Helped Elect Them (0.00 / 0)

Many progressives, myself included, worked very hard for our new Senator.  I knocked on doors, passed out her literature, in my home town, week after week...

So, don't accuse me of being John-John-Come Lately.

What I am saddened by is that these elected leaders seem so centrist (and Lynch??? list for me his democratic-type accomplishments).

And I am tired of this argument "Well, if you think the dems are bad, well...the rebublicans would be worse."  Tell me how what Lynch is doing is different than what a Rebublican governor would do.  He's gutting the budget, he's taken the no-tax pledge, he's made no friends on his meanderings on the school funding issue.  

I worked very very hard to help elect Democrats in my State. What did I get?

I got moderate-to-conservative.  And I got somebody on Blue Hampshire accusing me of having stayed on the sidelines during the primary.

I still have not heard from Mr. Buckley.

---

by: robsprague @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 14:06:39 PM CST

Yes, you have. Please see right above your own words. n/t (4.00 / 3)

birch, finch, beech

---

by: Dean Barker @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 14:20:04 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Lynch is better than, say, Benson? Really? (4.00 / 3)

I find your assertion a little off. Here is a list of "progressive" and important accomplishments achieved under the Lynch Administration:

-Passage of the minimum wage bill
-Passage of a bill that allows individuals under the age of 26 to stay on their parents health insurance
-Passage of the civil unions bill
-Investment in protecting our environment and LCHIP
-RGGI's passage
-Investment in HealthyKids
-Passage of the smoking ban in bars and restaurants
-Including Kindergarten in the definition of an adequate education
-Elimination of the DD wait list

I could go on, but I think you get the point.

The fact of the matter is that your frustration comes down to a single issue: tax reform--namely via the implementation of an income or sales tax. The alarming thing here is that you are not looking at a whole range of accomplishments. I think the Governor and legislature has done a terrific job, and understand that progress is not achieved in just two years.

One last point: if we are not supportive of our elected majorities in these difficult times, and a Republican is elected Governor or they take back the legislature in 2010, all of the aforementioned legislation will be overturned by the GOP. You can take it to the bank.

---

by: BlueStateDem @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 17:49:22 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Thank you Lieutenant Columbo ! n/t (0.00 / 0)

for transparency sake ~I represent Union print shops

---

by: JonnyBBad @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 20:05:29 PM CST

[ Parent ]

You make me feel like a hostage. (4.00 / 1)

if we are not supportive of our elected majorities in these difficult times, and a Republican is elected Governor or they take back the legislature in 2010, all of the aforementioned legislation will be overturned by the GOP. You can take it to the bank.

How about, If our elected majorities don't earn our continued support...

---

by: elwood @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 20:11:21 PM CST

[ Parent ]

This reeks of 'ticker anon (0.00 / 0)

I've read this countless times over at PolitickerNH. Yada-yada-yada.......

Whack-a-mole, anyone?

---

by: Jack Mitchell @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 20:40:13 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Really? (0.00 / 0)

Couldn't help but notice that just about anything you don't agree with seems to "reek" with something; perhaps that smell is just the result of your process of accusing anyone you don't agree with of...

>  "'ticker anon"
>  being some type of GOP operative
>  of course, the tired and dark title of "troll"

Functional censorship, if it be called what it is.

---

by: zinger @ Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 21:06:38 PM CST

[ Parent ]

So, I'm on a reek kick (0.00 / 0)

If you read this blog, regularly, you would know that I am redundant, over and over again.

I was helping you out for a little while, if you recall. You actually suited my purposes in one of the tribal squabbles you failed to recognize, but alas, I erred.

Take JimC's latest advice or don't.

As Bad says, "I'll be here and you'll be gone."

I also use my own personal pronoun alot. See, I relate everything to me and mine. It's personal.

Please don't badger me further.

Whack-a-mole, anyone?

---

by: Jack Mitchell @ Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 21:18:46 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Rob, (0.00 / 0)

---

by: elwood @ Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 06:14:49 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Arg. Bouncy keyboard. (4.00 / 1)

Rob,

I apologize for suggesting that you "stood on the sidelines." That wasn't aimed at you, it was intended as a general observation, but I should have made that clear.

For those of us who voted for and maybe worked for winning Democrats up and down the ticket, it seems to me that the strongest leverage we have right now is reminding them that they won with our help, not the help of the Union Leader. That's really a stronger position to come from, it seems to me, than asking an intermediary like Ray to intercede.

---

by: elwood @ Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 06:23:20 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Wrrrrrrrrrr... (0.00 / 0)

I apologize for suggesting that you "stood on the sidelines." That wasn't aimed at you, it was intended as a general observation

That's what I call accountability right there!   SPIN!

---

by: zinger @ Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 21:09:15 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Do you want a small tent? (4.00 / 4)

The party chairman's job, as pointed out above, is to help elect Democrats, not to take policy positions.  He or she has to be the chairman of all Democrats. When the chairman disagrees with elected officials, it is not the chairman's job to make those disagreements public - all that does is help the Republicans. Besides, what would you have the chair do if elected Democrats disagree on policy? If Paul Hodes and Carol Shea Porter took different positions on an issue? If Speaker Norelli and President Larsen disagreed?  

Ironically, it sounds like what you want is for the Democratic Party to become a smaller, less democratic party than it is today. You are demanding that the party organization adopt your positions. What would you do with those of us who might not agree with you on some of your positions?  And how do you know you are right on everything?  Must be terrific to have such certitude! If you want a party chairman who will be a dictator, telling elected officials what positions to take, then go talk to John H. Sununu, because that is what he is promising.

John Lynch signed the first increase in the minimum wage law in years, as well as the civil unions bill. Craig Benson, Jim Coburn and Joe Kenney would not have done so.  They would have pushed through more anti-choice legislation. Will Gov. Lynch and the legislature have to make cuts this year? Yes - as are Democratic governors and legislatures across the country.  It's because Bush wrecked the economy, with no regulation and spending tens upon tens of billions dollars on the Iraq War.    

One last point - that complaint that the chairman had not responded to your post was pretty off putting.  It is a holiday weekend, Mr. Scrooge - and he did respond politely and with courtesy in about 24 hours.



"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

---

by: Kathy Sullivan 2 @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 17:56:30 PM CST

Hey Burt, read this! n/t (0.00 / 0)

Whack-a-mole, anyone?

---

by: Jack Mitchell @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 20:35:41 PM CST

[ Parent ]

One of our goals should be to keep the Democratic Party in control (4.00 / 1)

Kathy Sullivan makes a great point- if you don't like Lynch, imagine what a Kenny, Benson, or Coburn governorship would bring. We have made substantive improvements in this state, socially and economically, as previous posters pointed out. If the rate of progess isn't what you would like, remember this is not a particularly progressive state.

The Granite State poll last year  said voters here were more than twice as likely to vote against a politican than for him if he or she voted for either an income tax or sales tax. I read this as saying passing an income tax would put us back in the minority for a long time, and let the Republicans roll us back to the 1960's. Maybe this smacks of incrementalism, but I think it is practical politics.

---

by: Michael Marsh @ Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 09:38:05 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Dear Kath, (0.00 / 0)

When you say...

What would you do with those of us who might not agree with you on some of your positions?  And how do you know you are right on everything?

Do you realize how hugely ironic this is, considering the source?  You are a bit "inflexible" ya know?

Lastly, take a look at your post, and the logic it features. Example...

One last point - that complaint that the chairman had not responded to your post was pretty off putting.  It is a holiday weekend, Mr. Scrooge

Could you possible post a schedule so that the people that disagree with you can know when it's acceptable to disagree with you, or is the truth simply

that it's not acceptable to agree with you

, or with any mainstream NH Dem policy?  Thanks!

---

by: zinger @ Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 21:15:14 PM CST

[ Parent ]

What it means to be a Democrat. (4.00 / 2)

It's a peculiar system we have in this country, as far as most modern democracies go.  We have two dominating parties, but instead of voting for parties, we vote for individual candidates.  And before we do so, every two, four, six years, we hollow out the party and start over.  Every election cycle, the voters choose, democratically, what it means to be a Democrat.  It is not dictated to anyone by political operatives, talented as they may be.

The Democratic Party is what its members make it when they select its nominees.  Ray Buckley's job is to get those nominees elected.

That said, Mr. Sprague, if you disagree, feel free to run for the state committee, or even the chairmanship, feel free to seek a seat at the next convention or to field a resolution changing the structure of the party.  For now, though, don't blame the Chairman of the New Hampshire Democratic Party for the ideology of the party.  It's not up to him.

--
Hope 2012

@DougLindner

---

by: Douglas E. Lindner @ Fri Jan 02, 2009 at 23:31:18 PM CST

The customer is sometimes right. (4.00 / 1)

Way to restate the critical point. It is not what you think alone or even with those here that already agree with you. You don't get to make these decisions in a vacuum even when you are party chair. It is not relevant what this sounds like to you other than that it sounds like that to you. Here is another working Democrat who thinks, as I do, that these other things should be done, immediately.

Sure, there are things we (bottom dwellers) don't understand as we are not party functionaries or whatever as are you. So when I, or someone else, says here is how it looks to me and here is what I think should be done and here is how to do it and here is what I am doing and on and on, the response that these aren't the point for you is faulty.

The response might be, as I don't speak for anyone but myself, here are the things we have done though we actually haven't accomplished what you want. I think this is: 1) interesting, 2) total crap, 3) impossible to do at this time, 4) I'd like it too but we couldn't get movement though we tried. Etc. Denial of the importance to the recipient I think will put more people off. Isn't this sort of fundamental organizational theory? The reaction to my recomendations is representative. We are told, our leaders are doing this from the bottom up. Well, I'm the bottom, I've been recommending stuff, my feeling is that my recommendations from the bottom generally gets this kind of response.

Perhaps all we need is a redefinition of terms. As someone firmly on the bottom, as I look up, I see few looking down. Then I read these comments and I am convinced. It's annoying. My metaphor is going into the doctor's office and saying, "my arm is cut off, see all the blood streaming down?" The doctor says, "no your arm isn't cut off, you are not really feeling that pain, that's just in your head." I'll send you off to a specialist.

---

by: xteeth @ Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 06:43:30 AM CST

Can I continue your metaphor? (0.00 / 0)

The problem is you've gone to the hospital administrator not the doctor. His office has computers and fax machines but it doesn't have bandages and medication.

The doctors, authorized to perform public policy surgery, are the people we elect to public office: the Governor, the state reps, the Senators. Knock on their doors.

Neither the doctors or the patients want the administrator picking up the scalpel.

---

by: elwood @ Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 06:49:25 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Fair point, but (0.00 / 0)

Why do you call it the bottom? I refuse to believe that about my own left-of-most liberalism.

---

by: JimC @ Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 07:06:48 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Thank the Lord... (0.00 / 0)

Amen.  Bless you.

Hey look guys, someone else sees this!

Careful, you'll be called an undercover GOP functionary if you keep this crap up.  Trust me here...

---

by: zinger @ Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 21:19:01 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Overcoming the energy barrier (0.00 / 0)

This thread reminds me of Betty Hall's impeachment crusade. I would consider this a "far left" endeavor.

Betty managed to build enough steam, that IF the party wanted to pick it up and put resources and political capital into it, it would have potentially succeeded.

So please mull that model. Strip it of names, dates, and other specifics. Just see the shell of a grassroots effort that rose as far as it could go on it's own. Any chemist would know the term "energy barrier." This is the minimal amount of energy needed to initiate a chemical reaction. An energy barrier can be lowered by introducing a catalyst, but a barrier, though lower, still exists.

Now lets move back to Betty and politics. Betty Hall and the folks she was collaborating with succesfully moved the impeachment movement to the point where there was enough energy to initiate the reaction, IF a specific catalyst was present. That catalyst was "the party." "The party" didn't show up, the movement made a few headlines and withered away.

Now please, I am not condemning "the party" here as the bad guy. The greater political will seemed not to be there and the party sometimes follows that drumbeat. I certainly did not support impeachment, though I respected the effort, I would not go too far out of my way to support it.

What is interesting to me, as I am Obama-centric with limited political scars, is that Betty Hall had more support for her movement, as far as boots on the ground, then Obama did in February of 2007. Obama was larger overall when combined with Chicago and Iowa operations, but the impeachment movement was ultimately larger on a national level. However, it was not cohesive enough to build on the level of support it had.

Walk the paths of each enterprise through your minds.

I think folks like Ray Bucley have a reponsibility to allocate precious resources. They must be savvy enough to recognize when one option is clearly a dead end and another has a shot at success. In a general election, that is eaiser, but no cake walk. In a primary, that function must be fairly hairy to negotiate. In off years, managing agendas and aspirants can't be easy.

But these folks live for the ballot, whether the ones cast in elections or by the legislative bodies passing laws.

Ultimately the answer is us, not Ray or his peers. If your confused by my statement, read hannah's diary: Why I Cannot Be Dispassionate.

We are the atoms/molecules in the political reaction contained in the beaker called America. If we are energized, we need no catalysts. "The party" will run to our cause because there is political capital associated to it, that capital is voters.

Obama/Plouffe/Axelrod felt that rumble, they slapped a slogan to it and rode it, deftly, to the White House.

To quote Hollywood, "build it and they will come."

Whack-a-mole, anyone?

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by: Jack Mitchell @ Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 10:45:21 AM CST

Good point, bad example (4.00 / 2)

From my perch, the impeachment effort didn't accomplish anything and never turned into a "movement".  A better example - a successful example - of people powered policy that started at the grassroots and ended up making a real difference is the effort of Ann Marie Morse to enact Michelle's law. Another example was the effort by the NH Womens Lobby and others to pass the Divorce Health Access Bill. Good policy starting at the grass roots with a process that focuses on educating lawmakers can happen.  In both of those cases, you didn't see a lot of headlines about the proponents, but you got results - legislation enacted and signed into law that will make people's lives better.  



"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

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by: Kathy Sullivan 2 @ Sat Jan 03, 2009 at 11:14:04 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Perch with an obstructed view? (0.00 / 0)

Do we really have the right to select which successful grassroots movements "accomplish anything" if the majority carried the day?  No.

A bird looking down on the simple folk that they believe really shouldn't be speaking openly (unless they agree)?

Maybe, likely...

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by: zinger @ Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 21:22:49 PM CST

[ Parent ]