Koch-Funded Organization Writes NH RGGI Legislation

We no longer run our state - (4.00 / 1)

we sold out to the highest bidder.  

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by: Lucy Edwards @ Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 06:14:01 AM CDT

ALEC (4.00 / 1)

William

I remember "discovering" ALEC years ago, but forgot all about it when Dems were in the majority.

But I was never aware that our friends the Koch brothers were behind it.

Thanks for bringing me up to date.

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by: Chaz Proulx @ Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 06:54:03 AM CDT

possible Nazi and definite John Birch links (0.00 / 0)

http://unknownjournal.wordpres...

Fred Koch founded the John Birch Society and the family relations in Germany were rumored to be monsters...see linky

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. HST

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by: JonnyBBad @ Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 06:59:37 AM CDT

just to tie all this together...RGGI, Koch brothers, AFP, John Birch Society, NullifyNow NH, the Speakah... (4.00 / 4)

(just sent this off as a letter to the editor but this is the perfect place for it to land as well, given the conversation about ALEC and the NullifyNow Conference tomorrow at SNHU)

If you knew that the John Birch Society was called idiotic and paranoid by William F. Buckley;
if you knew that most conservatives considered the John Birch Society to be wacky, extreme and fringe;
if you knew that the New Speaker of the NH House, Bill O'Brien, and the New NH GOP Chair, Jack Kimball. were speaking at a conference that had, as one of it's prime sponsors, the "parnoid and idiotic" John Birch Society;
and if you knew that one of the key speakers at that same conference was the CEO of the John Birch Society;
would you conclude that NH's Speaker of the House and the NH Chair of the GOP are wacky and extreme? Only asking.

(Footnote: Fred Koch, father of the billionaire Koch brothers was a founding member of The John Birch Society. It figures.)

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by: political chowder @ Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 08:19:22 AM CDT

Yes (4.00 / 1)

I would

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by: FrankLloydMike @ Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 08:39:30 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I refer you to... (4.00 / 1)

http://www.bluehampshire.com/d...

"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it." Albert Einstein

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by: susaninrindge @ Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 09:07:12 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Free State Project connection (4.00 / 1)

3 of the 8 sponsors of HB 519 are members of the Free State Project, and most or all of them  received a high rating from the NH Liberty  Alliance, which is closely affiliated with the Free State Project.

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by: vparmele @ Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 08:45:49 AM CDT

Fact correction (0.00 / 0)

3 of the 8 sponsors of HB 519 are members of the Free State Project

Let's examine that:

Rep. R. Barry, Hills 19;
Rep. Kurk, Hills 7;
Rep. Mirski, Graf 10;
Rep. Manuse, Rock 5;
Rep. L. Vita, Straf 3;
Sen. Forsythe, Dist 4;
Sen. De Blois, Dist 18;
Sen. White, Dist 9;

Which 3 do you believe are participants?
Manuse is public about his involvement, so that's 1.  As far as I'm aware, none of the rest are, though some of them would be flattered you think so.

and most or all of them received a high rating from the NH Liberty Alliance, which is closely affiliated with the Free State Project.

The NHLA isn't 'affilated' with the FSP, only that FSPers are likely to join and support the NHLA, but the NHLA has a much broader scope of membership throughout NH, natives and transplants alike.  The method of rating used by the NHLA is pretty public, based on voting records using clear principles articulated in the Gold Standard sheets they give legislators each session day.

BH's token Republican / Libertarian / TeaPartier / Free Stater, courtesy of a Federal Affirmative Action grant, despite many of his comments being marked down and hidden.

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by: SethCohn @ Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 09:12:07 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

FSP and NH Liberty Alliance (0.00 / 0)

I apologize for thinking that Rep Mirski and Sen Forsythe are members of the Free State Project. Some information I had read was misleading concerning this.

But it does seem to me that the NH Liberty Alliance and the Free State Project are pretty closely affiliated. One recruiting site for the FSP says the NH Liberty Alliance was founded by FSP participants in 2003. Is that true ?  There is another site for Free State Project recruiting that actually has a button to click to immediately join the NH Liberty Alliance, before people even move to NH.

The FSP appears to be much more politically inclined, and motivated than I had previously thought.
 

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by: vparmele @ Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 14:37:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

FSP vs NHLA (0.00 / 0)

The FSP does nothing in NH (beyond 2 events a year designed to draw new people to check out NH), it's a concept, and takes no stands at all.  It encourages like minded individuals to move to NH, period. (Motivated, yes... political?  No.)

The NHLA was founded by (according to the bylaws):

3.3 The original five Directors shall be James Maynard, Chair, of Keene, NH; Michelle Dumas, Director of Civic Action, of Somersworth, NH; Donald Gorman, Director of Political Action, of Deerfield, NH, Rich Tomasso, Director of Membership, of Nashua, NH, and Michelle Otterson, Secretary-Treasurer, of Keene, NH.

FSP Movers to NH? Not a one of them.  Have FSPers been on the board since?  Yes.

1.2 The NHLA is organized primarily for the purpose of accepting contributions and making expenditures to influence the selection, nomination, election, or appointment of individuals who are favorable to liberty to state or local public office. The NHLA is dedicated to effecting political and cultural change in New Hampshire in a manner favorable to individual liberty.

Sounds like a group that FSPers would support?  Yes.  It's also nonpartisan.  It's also expressly political.  As for 'recruiting sites', are there people who support both?  Yes.

And I will tell you, never having served on either board, but having been involved with both organizations behind the scenes in various roles at times (webmaster of each at different points, for example, unpaid volunteer mostly): There is no Koch money.  Individual donations are the rule, not the exception, and neither org swims in cash.  

Astroturf?  I know people who've given up good paying jobs and orderly lives in order to move to NH and get active and have to scrimp to do it.  It's an insult to them to propose that anyone is paying them to do it.  Turfing is about manufactured impressions, this is anything but.

BH's token Republican / Libertarian / TeaPartier / Free Stater, courtesy of a Federal Affirmative Action grant, despite many of his comments being marked down and hidden.

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by: SethCohn @ Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 18:15:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Free State Project - much more than just a concept (0.00 / 0)

To say that the Free State Project is nothing more than a concept is absurd. While I do believe that FSP members may have come to NH in large part for ideological reasons, those who came here, for whatever reasons, and however it happened, realized that New Hampshire is a place where they could perhaps have a significant influence politically, - if not with larger numbers, then with clever strategy.

Perhaps some FSP members realized how easily they could infiltrate small town NH politics. I've realized that myself at times. But the difference with me is that I lived here for over 15 years before I thought it was polite to tell the people who already lived here how I thought they should live. You newly planted Free Staters are pretty pushy politically, - in such a short time.

Perhaps FSP people decided to catch the political wave recently with the Tea Party movement. Whether there is Koch money involved, directly or indirectly, through think tanks I can not say. But I do believe that the FSP is involved with the NH Liberty Alliance, and more than simply tangentially. And the bills that many of them have proposed speak for themselves, in terms of how they plan to turn New Hampshire upside down.

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by: vparmele @ Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 21:23:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

the stated intent (4.00 / 1)

of the Free State Project when they announced they'd chosen NH, was to move here to take over our town and state governments.

There's no perhaps about their intentions.

http://www.wmur.com/r/2523833/...

http://freestateproject.org/fi...

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by: susanthe @ Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 21:38:47 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ah yes, the stated intent (0.00 / 0)

Thanks for cutting through the baloney, mine included although not intentional.

Everything I've observed, and read about the FSP makes it clear what their intentions are.

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by: vparmele @ Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 21:57:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

How many FSPers have been on the board? (0.00 / 0)

Care to identify those that have moved here as members of the FSP? I count maybe 50% (in italics)

Our current Board of Directors are:

Chair: Eileen Landies, chair@nhliberty.org
Vice Chairman: Sandy Pierre vicechair@nhliberty.org
Political Action: Joel Winters, political@nhliberty.org
Research: Dan Garthwaite, research@nhliberty.org
Membership: Keith Ammon, membership@nhliberty.org
Secretary: Paul, Comeau, secretary@nhliberty.org
Treasurer: Steve Villee, treasurer@nhliberty.org

Our past Board members:

Mark Warden
Jeremy J. Olson
Michelle Levell
Dawn Lincoln
Dan Itse
Carol McGuire
Shuvom Ghose
Denis Goddard
Suzanne Hudson
Jon Bender
Don Gorman
Dave Mincin
Keith Murphy
Rich Tomasso
Jim Maynard
Michelle Otterson
Michelle Dumas
Karen Pratt
Karl Beisel
Cal Pratt

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by: BeGreener @ Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 22:47:05 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

What is your point ? (0.00 / 0)

What is your point, in identifying these people as Board members ?  

And what in the world does this really mean:
 

The FSP does nothing in NH (beyond 2 events a year designed to draw new people to check out NH), it's a concept, and takes no stands at all.  It encourages like minded individuals to move to NH, period. (Motivated, yes... political?  No.

How does that statement square with the 101-Reasons-to-Move-to-NH material ? And why do recruiting sites for prospective FSP members place such emphasis on the NH Liberty Alliance ?

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by: vparmele @ Sun Mar 20, 2011 at 13:07:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

NH Liberty Alliance and the Free State Project (0.00 / 0)

I think it's important to correct the record here.  Mr. Cohn said the original members of the NH Liberty Alliance were not FSP movers to NH. But I believe that several, perhaps all were in-state Free State Project members, who welcomed newcomers into the State, and got them involved in politics early on. The connection is important, because of the significant role the NH Liberty Alliance is now playing in NH politics. I don't think most people are aware of the direct connection.

Here are some excerpts from a relevant November 2003 Associated Press article:

Free State Project forms alliance
By KATE McCANN - Associated Press Writer
CONCORD, N.H. (AP)

"Members of the project to bring 20,000 liberty-minded people to New Hampshire are forming a political action committee. Saturday marks one month since supporters of the Free State Project announced New Hampshire would be the stage for their revolution. And they will celebrate by signing paperwork to become the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance.

About 40 people are working to organize the Alliance. For now, they work from the living room of chairman James Maynard, who lives in Keene.  Free state membership count in New Hampshire has grown from 150 in July to 219, Maynard said. National membership is at 5,005. The majority of those in the Alliance are Free State Project members.

Maynard describes the Alliance as a nonpartisan political watchdog, a think-tank, and a charity-minded organization. The group will financially support "pro-liberty" candidates of all political stripes and volunteer for their campaigns, he said."

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by: vparmele @ Sat Apr 02, 2011 at 23:21:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

the usual in poor reporting... (0.00 / 0)

A large number of media mentions that confused FSP and NHLA happened in the early years... nearly every single time, someone from one org or the other pointed out the error, and the paper sometimes printed such a retraction.

Again, the FSP is a 'bus', it advocates for people of a certain set of principles to move to NH.  But the FSP doesn't do anything inside NH... as stated.  Do people who come to NH, thanks to the FSP, get political?  Some do.  Some don't.  Do they join the NHLA?  Some do, Some don't.  Are all of the NHLAers FSPers?  No, far from it.  A majority?  Dunno, but I doubt it.

As for the question of 'did any early board members of the NHLA welcome FSPers and help get them involved in politics?' Duh, yes, a number of Democrats around the State House who know Don Gorman from his days as a Rep, like former Senator and House Minority Leader (and now lobbyist) Rick Trombly, would tell you that Don is still doing that... and has been for many years... and Rick recently assisted in some of that training as a guest, among other folks who have guested...  I am a 'proud graduate of the Don Gorman School of Politics' as I like to put it.

The NHLA has always been nonpartisan, and Democratic involvement includes people like Joel Winters (currently political director) and even Rep. Tim Horrigan (noted BH poster), who won a 50-50 raffle at the last NHLA dinner, and as I recalled donated the winning back to the NHLA.

BH's token Republican / Libertarian / TeaPartier / Free Stater, courtesy of a Federal Affirmative Action grant, despite many of his comments being marked down and hidden.

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by: SethCohn @ Sat Apr 02, 2011 at 23:58:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

FSP is a bus - to where ? (0.00 / 0)

    " A large number of media mentions that confused FSP and NHLA happened in the early years...nearly every single time, someone from one org or the other pointed out the error, and the paper sometimes printed such a retraction"

What is this supposed to mean ? I found that Associated Press article verbatum on a FSP forum, from 2003. It was posted right after the Alliance was formed, and right after the FSP was formed. They came into official being in NH at about the same time

   "As for the question of 'did any early board members of the NHLA welcome FSPers and help get them involved in politics" -

I didn't ask a question, it seems they did welcome them, and were FSPers/libertarians who already lived in NH.

My point is that there seems to have been a strong political orientation to the Free State Project from the beginning. If not, why was there a button on a FSP website for people to join the NH Liberty Alliance, before they even moved to NH ?

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by: vparmele @ Sun Apr 03, 2011 at 07:52:46 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I don't understand what's unclear... (0.00 / 0)

The FSP from the front page of the site:

What the Free State Project is... The Free State Project is an effort to recruit 20,000 liberty-loving people to move to New Hampshire. We are looking for neighborly, productive, tolerant folks from all walks of life, of all ages, creeds, and colors who agree to the political philosophy expressed in our Statement of Intent, that government exists at most to protect people's rights, and should neither provide for people nor punish them for activities that interfere with no one else.

Statement of Intent

I hereby state my solemn intent to move to the state of New Hampshire. Once there, I will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of civil government is the protection of life, liberty, and property.

The FSP doesn't DO any of that effort: it only finds people of like mind, and asks them to move.

The NHLA, among many other organizations here in NH, is a political action group.

The New Hampshire Liberty Alliance is a non-partisan coalition working to increase individual freedom in New Hampshire. We do this by monitoring bills in the legislative sessions and encouraging private charity, a civil society, and citizen involvement.

The 2 groups might have overlap, but that's to be expected: they appeal to the same sort of person, but there are plenty of that same sort already in NH, which is why the NHLA isn't just freestaters... and why the FSP (which doesn't actually do anything in NH) would recommend people join the NHLA (among other groups it links to)

BH's token Republican / Libertarian / TeaPartier / Free Stater, courtesy of a Federal Affirmative Action grant, despite many of his comments being marked down and hidden.

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by: SethCohn @ Sun Apr 03, 2011 at 09:48:52 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Rep. Weyler (0.00 / 0)

From @NHPRNews:

#nhouse panel reviewing leg branch budget; considering 11 percent cut. Rep. Weyler remarks: "I'll have to pay for my own trip to ALEC."

"Politics ain't beanbag" - Finley Peter Dunne

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by: William Tucker @ Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 13:47:51 PM CDT

Garrity sounds like a decent guy... (0.00 / 0)

..for being a republican.  

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by: Wynter @ Sat Mar 19, 2011 at 01:51:21 AM CDT