House budget threatens shellfishing....and jobs

Seacoast Republicans vote against their constituents (4.00 / 2)

question: how many seacoast Republicans voted for that budget?  I hope that word gets out to their constituents that their reps are not hurting commercial harvesters and also recreational clamming, which is bad for tourism.




"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

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by: Kathy Sullivan 2 @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 08:22:46 AM CDT

I can answer that (4.00 / 2)

Looking at the communities which border Great Bay and Little Bay, here are the reps who voted for HB 1:

Dover: Donald Andolina, Michael Weeden
Durham: None
Newmarket (& Newfields): Josh Davenport, Adam Schroadter
Stratham: Patrick Abrami, Joanne Ward
Greenland: Deputy Speaker Pam Tucker
Newington: None

The Quandts are from Exeter, and Stratham is in their district.  Lee Quandt voted against the budget.  His son Matt Quandt took a walk and didn't vote on HB1.  They voted with their party on some earlier votes and against the GOP on other votes.

Tim Copeland is a Stratham Republican who voted against the budget.  Michelle Peckham is from North Hampton, which shares a House district with Exeter & Stratham: she skipped both days of the budget sessions, even though she has a good attendance record.

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by: TimothyHorrigan @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 10:19:02 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Add some more jobs to the (4.00 / 4)

list of those killed.  And if any Republican tells you they are the party of entrepreneurs, tell them they are full of shit!  They only support business that is very big, very establishment and very good at giving them campaign contributions and cushy jobs once they leave office.  

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by: Lucy Edwards @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 08:45:10 AM CDT

But, in the Randian bizarro world (4.00 / 3)

of the Flea Staters, all of these unfortunate business owners would just have to pony up the cash to pay directly for some independent "entrepreneur", who, through some arcane process, would become the official water-tester to certify the state's shellfishing waters to the Feds, OK? See how easy it is?

Would work just as well as declaring that all other states would recognize civil unions as marriages because "we said so, that is why", right?

These guys are even giving clowns a bad name. They can now add commercial fishermen to the long list of professions they hate.

2012. Or sooner, in some cases.

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by: GreyMike @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 09:19:12 AM CDT

Sure (4.00 / 1)

and would you eat shellfish that they were paying someone to test?  Would you buy a credit default swap from a bank that paid a bond-rating agency to rate it?  Oh, wait, you already did buy one of those for your retirement and it's now worthless.  Maybe you will starve for lack of retirement income before you are poisoned by shellfish full of e-coli or something.

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by: Lucy Edwards @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 09:33:10 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

The difference... (4.00 / 6)

..is life in the World of Theory and Debate vs. Life in the Real World.  They literally can not get their heads around the facts that their theories of what would happen in a world that operates in a vaccuum (or according to their Design) can not possibly function in a world where market structure inequities, start-up costs, public opinion, the whims of fate, & the sturm and drang of daily life hold sway.

(I'm the poster formerly known as Thomas Simmons)

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by: Tully Fitzsimmons @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 09:36:17 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Remember (4.00 / 1)

this?  

The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality-judiciously, as you will-we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

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by: Lucy Edwards @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 09:49:54 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Market structure inequities (4.00 / 2)

seem like a feature not a bug in their aristocratic vision.  The last thing businesses want is competition - barriers to market entry enhance profits and power.  

But maybe the plan is to nullify the federal regulations for water testing...nothing they do can be a surprise to anyone anymore.  

"Physical concepts are free creations of the human mind, and are not, however it may seem, uniquely determined by the external world." A. Einstein

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by: StraffordDem @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 09:50:01 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

well, and that also explains... (4.00 / 4)

...their disdain of union (who level the playing field with employers...)

...their disdain of renters rights (which level the playing field with landlords...)

...and theoir disdain of financial industry regulation (and love of pay day loan usury) (which levels the playing field with financiers.

Land, Labor, Capital.

Tenancy, Chattel, Indenture.

Free, Free, Free!.....on one side of the equation ONLY.

(I'm the poster formerly known as Thomas Simmons)

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by: Tully Fitzsimmons @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 10:13:28 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

But destroying the economy (0.00 / 0)

really won't work too well in the long run.

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by: Lucy Edwards @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 10:59:41 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I guess that depends... (0.00 / 0)

...on how you choose to measure the economy.  

If you discount lazy public servants, welfare queens, drug-snorting-moms-on-assistance, the disabled-who-really-could-work, those who are foreclosed upon because of their own poor planning, and the sick-who-cant-be-bothered-to-have-bake-sales, everything's just rosy, isn't it?

I mean, after all, Fidelity is moving here.

(I'm the poster formerly known as Thomas Simmons)

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by: Tully Fitzsimmons @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 11:19:52 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Had the same thought this a.m. (4.00 / 1)

After hearing a report that the "economy" is showing signs of life because "consumer spending" on high-ticket items was up, I couldn't help but think that as long as we ignore the un- and underemployed, we're using the wrong economic gauges.

We already know that increasing corporate profits will not create jobs.

"Physical concepts are free creations of the human mind, and are not, however it may seem, uniquely determined by the external world." A. Einstein

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by: StraffordDem @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 11:42:50 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

There may well be a structural deficit in the brain. You know, (0.00 / 0)

like some people are incapable of carrying a tune or some people don't recognize facial features. Some people may simply not recognize a relationship between cause (agent) and effect. Indeed, some people may not be aware of the proper order of events (that eggs are added BEFORE baking, not after).

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by: hannah @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 04:18:15 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

And talking about business (4.00 / 2)

I've posted this as a separate diary, but it is relevant to this discussion as well.

New Hampshire Business Review has an article listing some of the other businesses  that are beginning to notice what is being proposed in this disastrous budget.  

Research, tourism, international trade (now there's an area we can afford to neglect) are some of the other areas that have not ben discussed so much here.

It all adds up.  Stay tuned.

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by: Lucy Weber @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 11:33:46 AM CDT

NH GOPP (0.00 / 0)

alienating more businesses and citizens every day.

Whenever someone voices a doubt, or questions the imperial logic: YELL AT THEM.

Good idea!

2012. Or sooner, in some cases.

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by: GreyMike @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 11:49:29 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Grand Old Petulant Party n/t (4.00 / 1)

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by: Lucy Edwards @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 14:18:24 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Football without a referee. Maybe that's why they like golf. The players (0.00 / 0)

get to keep score themselves.  Who cares if they cheat?

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by: hannah @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 04:24:28 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Passed someone today reading this in the paper (0.00 / 0)

shaking their head in disbelief.

I think a reckoning is coming next election.

birch paper

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by: Dean Barker @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 20:34:17 PM CDT

As a NH (4.00 / 2)

business owner who sells shellfish I sure am glad my lobsters and steamers come from Maine.  I was thinking of looking for a NH supplier but if this budget goes through I'll stick with the Maine lobstermen and clamdiggers.

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by: ecorbett78 @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 21:35:56 PM CDT

Absent cause and effect, there is no responsibility. (4.00 / 2)

If the relationship between expectation and experience is not recognized, then the validating or negating function of experience is not realized. That testing children to evaluate teachers makes no sense doesn't occur to people who have no awareness of cause and effect having to be related to the same thing.
But, the false attribution of agency turns up everywhere and is accept as appropriate.  Take, for example, cost/benefit analysis, which is central to our economy.  For a very long time, that the costs were borne by society and the benefits realized by private individuals or corporations wasn't realized.  Now Stiglitz is writing about it regularly.  

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by: hannah @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 04:37:02 AM CDT

Externalities, (4.00 / 2)

as they are called, have been ignored for a long time, to the great benefit of the rich.  They get a lot of free rides, until the real cost of their free rides becomes so painfully apparent that people start to notice despite the desperate efforts to either hide them or blame them on the victims of them.  
I still am not sure if your analysis of their thinking is correct, or if they are just plain nasty.  A society whose political processes are skewed to selecting these people, which ours apparently has become, is in big trouble, as we can see by the speed with which we have descended through the ranks of so-called "developed" countries in so many metrics, most of which have to do with our children and their future prospects.  
A society which will not care for its children is a society doomed to fail.  I should re-read Jared Diamond's book about failed human societies over history and look for some of this stuff.  

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by: Lucy Edwards @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 05:50:53 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Lucy, I was just having this argument on another forum... (0.00 / 0)

The GOP-Right-Libertarian mind appears to have a total blind spot here...when, if you are really looking at markets as efficient forces, you MUST look at insuring that the producer and consumer and producer of goods absorb the total costs of that good, not the rest of us.

An otherwise bright individual was insisting to me that NH should not cosnider the feasibility of trains as mass trasnit between Manchester, Nashua, and Boston because it would require subsidies, and the 'market' has 'obviously' 'chosen' the private auto as the transit of choice.  This position ignores, of course, the fact that motorists weigh the costs and benefits of alternative actions to themselves (as THEY experience those costs), and do not consider the costs they impose on the rest of us (emergency responder drive time, air, water, & noise pollution, etc).  

If you're going to consider the costs of subsidies to a train system, then you must also consider the cost to society of unaddressed auto gridlock.

Us Lefty-Libertarians get it, but that makes us the black sheep of the flock...lol

(I'm the poster formerly known as Thomas Simmons)

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by: Tully Fitzsimmons @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 09:12:29 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

What's private (0.00 / 0)

about the roads all those cars drive on?  I think I missed something, we vote a lot of our town budget to take care of local roads, and I think the federal government built and supports the interstate system?  Have I been voting for something I so misunderstand?  How do my tax dollars build a purely private highway?  I am completely confused.

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by: Lucy Edwards @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 10:28:43 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

AH, but you see, thats YOUR fault... (0.00 / 0)

You should never have built those roads in the first place.  The Market would have automatically been able to purchase land rights from every landowner along the way, built them with capital that banks would most assuredly have lent, and charged each driver a toll to repay it.

You see...it's YOUR fault for not realizing the strnegth of a non-governmental Shangri-La....

(I'm the poster formerly known as Thomas Simmons)

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by: Tully Fitzsimmons @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 15:37:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sure. n/t (0.00 / 0)

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by: Lucy Edwards @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 17:39:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]