On Goyim Pond

We're first in the nation (4.00 / 1)

on just so many cool things.

Like, f'rinstance, being #1 in in-state tuition prices at public four-year institutions.

So many superlatives.

November 2012
Hope for a return to sanity.

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by: GreyMike @ Sun Mar 18, 2012 at 23:50:51 PM UTC

wow (4.00 / 1)

there's some sobering information available at that link. Thanks GM.  

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by: susanthe @ Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 00:24:30 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes, sorry to say. (4.00 / 1)

For example, one can learn that we have more in common with DC than most people realize.

Over and above having a large legislative body with a sizeable majority of clowns, that is.

November 2012
Hope for a return to sanity.

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by: GreyMike @ Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 01:15:20 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Carole Appel (0.00 / 0)

Thanks to Carole Appel who first brought this to attention in the NH Jewish Reporter, last year.

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. ~ Mark Twain

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by: JonnyBBad @ Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 13:10:44 PM UTC

which reminds me... (4.00 / 1)

The mention of Carole Appel reminds me: the annual Roosevelt  Dinner is being held by the Strafford County Democrats Saturday night, March 24th.  It is just $15.  

The Dover Democratic Committee's fifth annual Franklin Roosevelt Dinner will take place Saturday, March 24, at 7 p.m. at the Niles Park Community Center, at Union St. off Court St. in Dover.

Featured speakers include Jackie Cilley and Maggie Hassan, who are running for governor, and Carol Shea-Porter, who is running for congress from the First District, which she represented from 2007 to 2011.

The dinner will be a full-course spaghetti supper, at $15 per person, or $5 for children. The dinner will commemorate the 79th anniversary of the inauguration of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, the only president in American history to have been elected four times to the White House. Roosevelt's first term began on March 4, 1933.

Reservations for the dinner should be made in advance, by calling Bill Dudley, Democratic Committee secretary, at 749-3899.

Wendy Alley, Dover Democratic Committee chair, says, "I urge all area Democrats to come to this informal event, meet other local activists, and hear what the candidates hope to accomplish if elected."

sitting state rep: running for re-election in 2012.

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by: TimothyHorrigan @ Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 13:45:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Saw this and wondered (4.00 / 1)

I could see it being an epithet, but it also seems possible to me that it could have just been descriptive like "Chinatown" or "Little Italy" or "The French Quarter".  Those terms aren't usually regarded as offensive, are they?

For example, if I can't remember the name of a restaurant and simply call it "that Lithuanian restaurant I went to in Montreal", is that racist of me? (Sadly, it got torn down a few years ago.)

Or, as another data point, there's a French Pond in Henniker and eight French Roads around the rest of the state, not to mention Amoskeag Falls in Manchester and numerous other geographic features named after indigenous ethnicities.

If there's evidence that the name is the product of anti-semitism it definitely ought to be changed, and really should be even just if people are tending to assume malice and take offense.  I guess what bothers me is that I've seen this mentioned in a few places nationally without any particular evidence that it's the product of racism; in this Daily Show bit part of the implication sort of seems to be, "Well they're a bunch of hicks, of course it's racist!"

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by: Vis Unita Fortior @ Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 22:36:14 PM UTC

you must have missed the part (4.00 / 1)

where they briefly touched on the history.  

I recommend you check out the video that is available at this link.

Is "Lithuanian" used as an insult? I never seem to hear about "Lithuanian lawyers" or "Lithuanian bankers." I never hear anyone who has successfully haggled down a price refer to "Lithuanianing it down."

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by: susanthe @ Mon Mar 19, 2012 at 22:52:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

That's just it (0.00 / 0)

The only history he mentions is that it gained the name when a couple of Jewish guys from Boston bought the land.  (Left out of the story is that the entire reason they bought the land was to establish a hotel specifically catering to Jewish clientele.)

Even in the video you linked to there (which actually seemed much more objective than most of the treatment of the issue I've seen) all there seems to be in the way of evidence is one older lady who didn't grow up in Mont Vernon who makes a guess, saying that she figures it was originally an insult.  It mentions that the previous owners of the land ran a hotel that was closed to Jews, but extrapolating from that to "well obviously all the people in the town were racists" would kind of be a prejudiced assumption itself.

Another thing in that video is the director of the NH Jewish Federation saying "it's not an awful word" and "if the name had been 'Jewish Pond' we would not be having this conversation."  That seems like a pretty fine line to turn into a black-and-white "Ha ha ha!  What a bunch of racists!" that seems to be the way it's generally being reported.

He makes the same point you do that racists often use "Jew" pejoratively, but I have only ever heard someone say this in person exactly once, when I was in high school and someone used the term "jewed me out of it" to mean "cheated".  Later on I pointed out to her that one of the people who had been listening to her was Jewish and at first she didn't even understand what I was talking about, but when I got through to her that "jewed" and "Jewish people" were the same word she was horrified and ashamed she'd said it.

It certainly was far less rare a hundred years ago, and I know for certain that it's much less rare in other parts of the country and probably just in other social circles today; this just doesn't look to me like the open and shut case it's being presented as and it seems like sloppy journalism.

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by: Vis Unita Fortior @ Tue Mar 20, 2012 at 07:02:40 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

journalism? (0.00 / 0)

Jon Stewart is NOT a journalist. He's a comedian.

It seems clear that you aren't going to be dissuaded from your determination that the name of the pond doesn't come from a place of historic anti-Semitism, even though that IS the history of the town.

And the fact that you don't hear people use the term "Jew" pejoratively doesn't mean that it doesn't happen all the time.  

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by: susanthe @ Tue Mar 20, 2012 at 13:36:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not a determination (0.00 / 0)

Just a questioning of the received wisdom in the way this is being reported in various media outlets at the national level: I didn't just mention John Stewart - I think you knew that.

And I doubt you missed the bit where I explicitly said that the pejorative use of "Jew" is less rare "in other parts of the country and probably just in other social circles today" - but hey, why pass up on the opportunity to imply that I'm somehow ignorant, right?

I'll have to let my friends from Mont Vernon know that they grew up in a place of historic anti-Semitism.

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by: Vis Unita Fortior @ Wed Mar 21, 2012 at 03:55:14 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The pond's name is offensive... (0.00 / 0)

I am glad they changed it. That being said, I take umbrage at Stewart only showing the minority of voices who were against changing the name, and then writing the whole town off as a bunch of hicks. Mont Vernon is a lovely town, with lovely people (the present Speaker excepted). It just shows another wealthy urban "media elite" making fun of working class rural people. No wonder our country is so divided. I can applaud the name change, and deplore the old name, with saying and implying what Jon Stewart says and implies here.  

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by: Tgroh @ Tue Mar 20, 2012 at 02:56:08 AM UTC