Live Free or Die? Not So Much

I suddenly feel rather lonely... (0.00 / 0)

Am I really the only 'under 34' that likes "Live Free or Die?"

To me, it's a reminder of the freedom we have to live our lives as we please, and the price our many greats grandparents paid so that we would have them.  It's a reminder that we shouldn't give up those rights without a fight. And of the fiercely independent spirit I inherited from all of my grandparents.

I suppose it can sound a bit draconian to those unfamiliar, but really, compared to the lyrics to the Star Spangled Banner, it's pretty mild...

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by: Karen @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 09:05:16 AM CDT

No, I totally agree (0.00 / 0)

Live Free or Die is an awesome motto that gets lots of compliments from young people from all over the country. Many states have lame mottos.

But, it's also pretty hollow. There remain a lot of fairly strictly enforced laws that are out of touch with society's realities and criminalize the activities of way too many young people: notably with regard to alcohol and marijuana. NY and MA--especially Boston and other areas with high student populations--are much friendlier in this regard.

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by: Alex Gallichon @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 11:43:41 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Totally Agree, as well (4.00 / 1)

Live Free or Die = awesome state motto! The state's alcohol and marijuana policies are a drag, but the motto is not the problem at all. I left because of the lack of gainful employment in any cool areas of the state.

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by: peacekeeper @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 14:34:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Last year (4.00 / 2)

I attended a young elected officials conference and I heard about a great policy Maine had adopted to retain college graduates. The state offered recent college grads tax credits designed to help retire debt for each year they lived in the state after graduation.  I wish I had more specifics but with so many grads leaving our university system and the Governor's love of tax credits it seems like something that could work in NH.

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by: fontasj @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 09:24:47 AM CDT

Good idea. (4.00 / 1)

Another one, though a little close to my prof. life so I'm not endorsing or not endorsing it:

How about NH, like some other states, offers student loan forgiveness to public school teachers on a gradual/sliding scale basis based on years of service.  Or maybe that but just for critical need or region areas. Teachers, like police, nurses, etc... tend to form the types of families that stay in communities and help them grow.

I've grown accustomed to the weird shortage of people my age here, but absolutely, it is a major problem.  I know Mike C. has discussed it on BH before.

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by: Dean Barker @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 09:39:04 AM CDT

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Could be a good idea, hard to say... (0.00 / 0)

but no matter. Because, like just about every other good idea that takes state money, we are too broke to afford it.

Another idea might be to reduce tuition for in-state students at public colleges. Nope, wait, we can't afford that either.

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by: Michael Marsh @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 10:41:34 AM CDT

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What tax (0.00 / 0)

could the credit be applied against in NH that would help the target group?

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by: Alex Gallichon @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 11:23:31 AM CDT

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The income tax (0.00 / 0)

..required to make the state a desirable place to live? /snark

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship

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by: Andy Edwards @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 13:38:39 PM CDT

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In all seriousness though.. (0.00 / 0)

I would be interested to hear some of our elected officials explain why the New Hampshire Advantage (TM) isn't translating for young people.

It's time we steer by the stars, and not the lights of every passing ship

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by: Andy Edwards @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 13:43:47 PM CDT

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The total state (0.00 / 0)

income tax exemption seems like a bigger deal than a tax credit against an income tax.

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by: Alex Gallichon @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 14:31:58 PM CDT

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Property and housing is the culprit (4.00 / 1)

I like the tax credit to retire debt idea.

I think the biggest problem we college graduates face in New Hampshire is "Where am I going to live?"

Any young professional realizes that renting is no way to build equity.
I started off with a good paying job, but even when the mortgage rates hit their lowest, with my school debt I could only qualify for a $110k loan.
That meant I could afford an apartment style condo, a "stepping stone" as I called it.

Now 29, and all this time with a fair paying career, have realized I will have to find the woman I will marry before we can qualify to own a house and a small piece of property in NH.

It has nothing to do with our motto "Live free or Die" that I feel has helped shape the character of those of us who were born here.

 

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by: justintwest @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 22:15:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

OK, I like NH and all (4.00 / 1)

but let's look at the down side. What's there to do after 10pm? What social and cultural opportunities are there?

On the jobs side, where can you work for more than few bucks per hour over minimum wage as a recent university grad or, just as importantly, non-grad? There are a lot of super duper qualified, wicked experienced, better educated older people competing for most of the same reasonable jobs. What about opportunities to advance? In my view, more should be done here to promote entrepreneurialism. I don't think the NH business environment is favorable relative to neighboring states. And economic development and job creation seem to be hollow words from the politicians in NH, compared to other places (I would suggest they take field trips to Quebec, for starters).

Only my friends who are or are aiming to be police, firefighters, or nurses seem to have any reasonable opportunities in NH.

And, back to the first point, it can be pretty boring at times.

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by: Alex Gallichon @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 11:35:47 AM CDT

What would you like to see (0.00 / 0)

for cultural/night life?

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by: Jennifer Daler @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 11:41:43 AM CDT

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For starters (0.00 / 0)

I would like museums that don't have terrible hours and bars with women closer to my age than my mother's.

It can be said that NH has a decent local music scene, at times, depending on ones tastes.

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by: Alex Gallichon @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 11:47:21 AM CDT

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If your taste runs from cover bands (0.00 / 0)

to other cover bands, then yes this is true.

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by: Brinck Slattery @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 20:03:17 PM CDT

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Also, for night life (0.00 / 0)

it's basically impossible to eat anything decent after 10pm. You're basically left with fast food. Gross.

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by: Alex Gallichon @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 11:51:06 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

That's true almost everywhere (0.00 / 0)

In the country. The exceptions are New York, L.A., and maybe San Francisco and Chicago. It is certainly true in Boston during the week, unless you really like Chinese food.

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by: JimC @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 11:55:20 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

There are some 24 hour diners. (0.00 / 0)

Isn't the Red Arrow in Manchester 24 hours?  And then there's the Buckhorn over in Greenland.  Yeah, it's at a truck stop, your point?  OK, maybe I'm not doing so well convincing anyone of the available nightlife.  

But really, who wants to spend Friday night at a bar, when you could be home packing your gear for an early start on Saturday?  There is nothing like seeing the sunrise from a mountaintop. Or getting the first run down a freshly groomed slope.*  Not to mention ending the day with the sun setting over one of our many lakes.

Whatever the season, NH has a lot to offer outdoor enthusiasts.  Our competition isn't Boston or San Francisco - that's not what NH is about.  Our competition is Colorado.

*Truth in advertising - I don't actually ski, but I've been told this is a big deal.  What do I know - snowshoes are more my speed.  

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by: Karen @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 12:25:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well, yes (4.00 / 1)

But I think Alex has a point. You need outdoor stuff and nightlife if people are going to settle there.

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by: JimC @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 12:34:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I disagree (0.00 / 0)

I think the survey is misleading on this issue.  If you ask someone if they would like more cultural and nightlife opportunities, you're going to get a lot of positive responses.  But that doesn't mean it's a make or break issue for very many of them.

I don't think you NEED much of a nightlife to keep most young people around.

Course, I'm one of the ones who actually has stuck around despite the 'lack' of a nightlife, so what do I know.  I suppose we should be asking the people who did leave what it would have taken for them to stay.  I think the answer is going to be a job, but it could be more bars and a 24 hour art museum/Thai restaurant. /snark

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by: Karen @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 14:24:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's interrelated (4.00 / 1)

If you have industry, you'll have people, and nightlife will follow (one way or another).

My town is a suburb of Boston, and a virtual graveyard for restaurants. It can sustain certain types -- call it quick food, not quite fast but not fine dining -- but can't sustain the volume for a nice restaurant. There just aren't enough people in town willing to eat out at a good place once a week, and the drive-through traffic has other options.

We have four bars, two of which are arguably night clubs. Sometimes I wonder how they stay open; they are never crowded during the week.

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by: JimC @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 14:30:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think it's the other way around (4.00 / 1)

with the people come the nightlife and the culture...

it's the jobs that bring the people...

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by: Alex Gallichon @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 14:27:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

yeah (0.00 / 0)

don't forget to bring along the fee for accessing the National Forest when you go out on that hike. According to the Forest Service website those fees are going up next year.

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by: susanthe @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 13:09:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

but at least: (0.00 / 0)

At least it turns out that the 9% camping tax is NOT applied to purchases of state parks :-)

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by: TimothyHorrigan @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 13:30:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'd rather pay money on a cover charge to a state park than a bar (4.00 / 1)

Night life costs money.  Cover charge, $5 beers, it adds up.

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by: Karen @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 14:03:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Supply and demand n/t (0.00 / 0)

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by: JimC @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 14:09:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I went to a volcanic (0.00 / 0)

crater lake in Ecuador and to enter the park one had to pay more than for parking at Mt Monadnock, which has more visitors and where Ecuador is generally cheaper.

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by: Alex Gallichon @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 14:27:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

When I used to come home (0.00 / 0)

late at night from class and was too tired to make something to eat, a sandwich at the Garden in Nashua or the Red Arrow in Manchester or Milford were always a better choice than some of the other alternatives...

Also, the skiing is definitely a big deal. For the most part, I'm fairly boring, but I'm happy to share the unfortunate things that get complained about. And if it's youth retention, rather than attraction, NH is competing with Boston. At least, that's where the majority of acquaintances in and out of school that I grew up with seem to be.

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by: Alex Gallichon @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 14:38:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

4'd for candor (0.00 / 0)

We'd welcome you in Massachusetts.

Scratch that, we don't have any jobs either. Stay home.

Unless you'd like to run for rep down here.

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by: JimC @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 11:46:02 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Of what little money is out there (0.00 / 0)

Boston/Cambridge is still a huge recipient of VC money given the relative population to Silicon Valley and NYC.

Massachusetts has other negatives, to be sure.

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by: Alex Gallichon @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 11:49:01 AM CDT

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Negatives (4.00 / 1)

We prefer to call them acquired charms.

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by: JimC @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 11:53:02 AM CDT

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I'll take that as a compliment. n/t (4.00 / 1)

www.KusterforCongress.com  

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by: Jack Mitchell @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 12:15:02 PM CDT

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Go for it. (0.00 / 0)

The current NH state rep who was a MA state rep many years ago is still having most of his health insurance paid courtesy of the State of MA.  As opposed to NH...

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by: Lucy Weber @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 15:13:57 PM CDT

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NH Jobs (0.00 / 0)

How about individual entrepreneurs getting together to promote their fields? My son is a member of VT Software Developers and they get together regularly to promote their field, get the attention of the state and hold job fairs. Can't wait for government to do everything!

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by: Katemck @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 11:52:46 AM CDT

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all of the clever marketing schemes (4.00 / 2)

aren't going to do anything until we solve some of NH's problems.

We need jobs. We need communications infrastructure, and we have serious housing problems - that are caused by our regressive tax system.

We are so afraid to tax our millionaires that we have fees for almost everything, and they go up and up and up. We advertise our wonderful outdoors - and then we make people pay fees to use the National Forest. The way we do things is a big part of the problem, but of course the pledge takers don't want to acknowledge that.  

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by: susanthe @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 12:22:44 PM CDT

Yet another local government (0.00 / 0)

thinks it can solve it's attractiveness problem with a cute slogan. Lipstick on a pig? I dont understand how communities can elect governments that are so out of touch. Perhaps there are large voting blocks of people who are also out of touch? If you're having a problem attracting people, then you need to provide something attractive, not just change your nickname. People might be attracted at first, but soon they will discover just how shallow you really are.

Of course, this also speaks to NH's priorities. Since when did NH want to be more like MA or CT or NY?  

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by: romulusnr @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 15:08:29 PM CDT

NH has had major industry (0.00 / 0)

at different generations: timber and paper, textiles, computers, etc. with big plants that brought people and grew towns. There were so many jobs, people from all over the world came to NH to fill them. It was an interesting place where stuff was happening. Basically the fear that NH has a demographic problem indicates a change not from a former position of peace and quiet, but from a former position of strength and growth. The older people were once younger people that had stuff to do.

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by: Alex Gallichon @ Tue Jul 14, 2009 at 15:16:54 PM CDT

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RE: Yet another local government (0.00 / 0)

Well said romulusnr,

This suggestion for a motto change seems so far removed from what any root respecting, and forward thinking NH resident or elected representative could want/be asking for.

Live Free or Die is something that in my opinion, DEFINES our state's youthful, energetic, and independent spirit.

Also,
The arguments I am seeing that "There is nothing to do here" seems to me a symptom of my generation's rampant consumer culture.
Entertain me, provide me with all the options, make this easier, I shouldn't have to wait.

There is so much to do here in NH, and with the aid of the widely available communication tools such as text messaging, and social networks, it is so easy to take the initiative to bring everyone together for an activity.

There is live music everywhere in NH.
I used to do a game night with some of my friends this past winter.
It saved money, gas, and was more engaging and entertaining than dry humping some hobot you just met. (No offense to Manchester's intelligent and attractive  female population mind you.)

I have seen some great advances in social programs to retain our youth over the past few years. I too would like to see more.

Most bars now have a trivia  night on wednesdays.
NHSSC is a great sports league that you can join for $50 per season.

Entertainment in NH does not have to involve more night clubs, or later operating and serving hours.
Plan ahead, pack a snack.

For the youth bent on clubbing and alcohol related nightlife activities...
That's what Boston is for, you can be there within one hour from most of southern NH.
As a youthful resident of NH, do you really want to fill our main streets with more litter, with drunken messes sloshing about, and smokers standing around on the sidewalks?  

My challenge to anyone who says NH is boring is to come up with an activity that a large number of people like you can come together to enjoy that doesn't require a physical establishment, or funding from your local government.

Let our local government solve the bigger issues like how can we work less hours and have MORE leisure time?
We should be able to handle our own boredom.
btw...I just solved mine.  ;)

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by: justintwest @ Wed Jul 15, 2009 at 00:50:33 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

justinwest (4.00 / 3)

I find your comments about women to be truly offensive. I hope that  you will offer up an apology to all of us for your sexist remarks, and pledge not to repeat it.  

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by: susanthe @ Thu Jul 16, 2009 at 09:41:09 AM CDT

[ Parent ]