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Don't Believe the Hype from the Anti-Marriage Crowd

by: Dean Barker

Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 21:04:23 PM EST


So the anti-marriage crowd is trying to make hay over the fact that some parts of New Hampshire adopted their stealth attempt to insert discrimination into our constitution, and alarm bells are going off among some in the wider LGBT community.

Don't believe the hype.

Dean Barker :: Don't Believe the Hype from the Anti-Marriage Crowd
Let's put this non-binding nonsense into context and be honest about what it meant for non-SB2 towns.  It meant the deliberation of a tiny fraction of a town's voting population, the median age of which is, let's be frank, likely well above the town's average.

And then add to that the fact that these petition articles are among the last items of business.  At my town meeting, we got to the anti-marriage article, iirc, around 11:30pm, over four hours into the meeting.  Probably a solid third or more of the good folks who began the meeting weren't even around at that point.  And those are the ones who had (or didn't need) someone to watch young kids, so, tough luck for full representation from younger families.

And then add to that the anti-marriage strategy of downplaying their discriminatory intent, and instead the focus on the process of allowing Direct Democracy!, or whatever.  The mom, pop, and apple pie boilerplate wording of the bill is very careful to conceal its purpose.  Ask yourselves: would the faux-noble Let New Hampshire Vote mission exist if marriage equality hadn't passed into law? So if there's no one around close to midnight who can explain what's going on and be willing to speak out about it, your town might be plum out of luck when this thing came to a vote.

My wonderful town of Andover, in the end, and despite all these obstacles, solidly voted down the article. One person spoke in favor of it (my state rep, Jenn Coffey), and four spoke against (disclosure: I was one of the four).

As I was on my way out the door, a teenager I've never seen before and don't know came up to me to thank me for what I had said, and to explain how upset she was over that article.

This filled my heart with joy, and not because of her thanking me.  Because this young person, not even old enough to vote, in a room surrounded by people mostly older than I am (and I am not young), sat through four hours of selectman explanations, cemetery funding figures, fights over what culverts to fix or ignore, whether our police should get a lousy raise, a lousier raise, or no raise, and trash compacter debates, just to see if her town would go the way of fairness and tolerance, or not.

Or, to put it another way, in the form of a poll from last year:

among those 18 to 34 years old, 58 percent said same-sex marriages should be legal. That number drops to 42 percent among respondents aged 35 to 49, and to 41 percent for those aged 50 to 64. Only 24 percent of Americans 65 and older support recognizing same-sex marriages, according to the poll.

The future is bright, friends, and its path is paved with tolerance and freedom.

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Only a few steps away (0.00 / 0)
from what some like-minded so-called "Christians" are said to have been fomenting in Uganda. Nancy Elliot and her ilk would feel right at home, with hatred, violence, and even murder promoted as Christian values.

In this case, some of the insurgents promoting this terrorism are apparently based in the U.S., in fact just down the road in Springfield, MA (I will not dignify this travesty with a link, Google away if you must). Looks like if it won't wash here, they'll try it in other places where it will.

Republicans believe government is bad - then they get into office and prove it.


I've spoken to friends who live in (4.00 / 2)
towns that voted for this warrant article, and the common thread is that no one spoke against it. In Milan, my friend doesn't think people actually understood it - and the minister from the evangelical church was quite persuasive.

I think that if there had been actual discussion, the outcome might have been quite different. I feel certain we'll have a discussion tomorrow night in Jackson.  

member of the professional left  


At my town's store (4.00 / 3)
today, I ran into some prominent folks. I spoke to  them about the article (our meeting isn't for a couple of days). At first they thought it was a question of "democracy". Then when I pointed out the Constitution is to enhance, not limit rights, and pointed out that other amendments failed the House, other laws people don't agree with get passed, but no such  initiative happened, town by town, they realized what was happening.

This letter from The Telegraph nails it:

If the vote were "for democracy," there would be talk about a direct vote for health reform, or a direct vote for gun control, or a direct vote for many other things that we leave to our elected legislators to decide.

If these articles on town warrants were about democracy, they would change the New Hampshire Constitution to modify the ways that laws in general are enacted, not just the gay marriage law. We would then have removed the legislator's ability to pass any laws without direct input. If that is what the citizenry of New Hampshire wants, then so be it.


The only thing discussed or addressed in these town warrant articles, however, is trying to overturn the duly elected legislators' vote on this one law about gay marriage. It is not about "democracy." People who are thinking about voting for this article based on the "right to democracy" are being mislead.

The towns around here where the measure passed are majority Republican voter registration, and even then, the measure didn't pass by an overwhelming majority.  I think many fell for the "let the people decide" ruse, and are not opposed to marriage equality.

Some of my bets friends are _____. (4.00 / 1)

http://www.concordmonitor.com/...

Residents also defeated a petitioned warrant article calling on state Legislature to allow a referendum vote defining marriage. Organizers of the effort seek to ban gay marriage.

One of the people who signed the petition, Scott Lucas, said the article was not about gay marriage. Reading from a prepared statement, he said it was about allowing residents of New Hampshire a vote on the question.

In response, Moderator Peter Imse stepped down from the podium to ask voters to reject the question. He said it was an attempt by some to inflict their religious dogma on the masses."I don't want my town to sanction unwarranted discrimination," he said, adding: "I don't want Bow to sanction religious dogma."

Mary Lee Sergeant, who described herself and her partner as some of the only openly gay people in Bow, told residents that voting for the question would attempt to impose a state law guided by bigotry.

In response, Lucas said today's definition of marriage is radically different than any other in the history of humankind.
"As far as the bigotry issue, I have known gay people for more than 40 years," he said.

The article was turned down, 192-75.



Annie 2012!

[ Parent ]
Somebody seems to have come up with a new (4.00 / 1)
wrinkle which argues that oppression is OK if it's imposed by a majority vote--i.e. democracy in action.  I say that because Stuart Taylor, a legal pundit who writes for the National Journal is using that line of attack in castigating liberal and conservative groups and the SCOTUS for what he refers to as "stetching rights."

The key to their thinking seems to be an equation between governance and prohibition--i.e. the meaning of to govern, by their lights, is to forbid some human behavior, which puts governance in opposition to individual rights and defines limits on the use of force to constrain behavior as an expansion or stretching of rights.

Zero sum thinking has migrated from economics into politics, or is it the other way around?  I think I've finally figured out that political economy is a system that aims to control people by restricting the resources they need to sustain themselves.  If so, then deprivation is a basic tool; not an aberration.


[ Parent ]
Here's a quote (0.00 / 0)
from an anti marriage equality state rep at his town meeting:

"(Gay marriage) is a cultural change and the people have a right to vote," state Rep. Bill O'Brien said. "I don't think this is an equal rights argument any more than the rights of anyone doing something that is prohibited. It's framed in the precious language of our civil rights struggle and it misuses that language, a glorious history of doing away with sexual discrimination and racial discrimination and they're using that language to pervert our society. I think it's very important for all of those representatives who sat out have a chance to know what the people really want."


Mister Bates (0.00 / 0)
is in favor of putting slavery and interracial marriage to the popular vote. Would Rep. O'Brien agree with that?  

member of the professional left  

[ Parent ]
Bow 192-75 against the Amendment (4.00 / 2)
We care about taxes, roads, water and development issues, but not about abridging rights granted under the Constitution for Equal Protection and Freedom from Discrimination. Live free or die.

Annie 2012!

Lee 24-119 (4.00 / 5)
Lee voted No on the warrant article (and hence Yes on marriage equality) 119-24.  There was only a little debate on the article: the new baseball park appropriately got much more attention.



-----


Thanks for all the fish


-----


I need a tipist hoo can spellczech n/t (0.00 / 0)


Annie 2012!

The news articles are misleading (4.00 / 1)
This article has been defeated in over 1/3 of the towns so far.  News reports have been largely ignoring the towns that defeat it by "skipping over" the question.  They also are ignoring the more than a dozen towns that defeated it in the deliberative sessions.  My own town of Brookline voted about 3-1 to skip over this article last night.

Also, with the notable exception of the Union Leader's recent article, most have not pointed out that an actual constitutional amendment requires a 2/3 super majority.   Very few of these towns have passed it by that margin.

What votes they do have are inflated by wording that encourages supporters of marriage equality to vote for the article and the fact that the larger, more liberal, cities are not voting on it, only the smaller, more conservative towns.

Even if you just look at the towns that had warrant articles, had this been an actual constitutional amendment vote, it would be going down in flames.


I appreciate this perspective (4.00 / 1)
Is anyone tallying the towns that couldn't get enough signatures on the petition, the towns that killed it via amendment during deliberative session, the towns that voted the warrant up/down during town meeting?  It would be extremely useful to have lists from each category, as well as know the percentage of registered voters in each town who voted on the warrant, and the total population represented by the "no" and "yes" sides.

I am not from NH, and I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing which towns listed in the paper are small rural towns versus cities.  Some stats would really help the rest of the country understand what did or didn't happen.


[ Parent ]
Excellent context. n/t (0.00 / 0)


birch, finch, beech

[ Parent ]
Oh, and btw, the statistical reality that (0.00 / 0)
gay couples, just like heterosexual couples, are likely to enjoy greater economic security, if not affluence, very likely prompts a bit of envy on the part of people whose self-centered ire wishes other people ill.
Another opportunity to remind of the "seven deadlies":

wrath
pride
envy
greed
gluttony
lust
sloth


What happens next?? (0.00 / 0)
This was a non-binding article.  The legislature has already voted against putting this proposal on the Nov. ballot as a constitutional amendment.  As others have noted, it takes a super majority to pass an amendment, and the leaders of this movement don't have a super majority.  Are they just making noise, or do they have a plan?  Will they be bringing in Maggie Gallagher and the big guns next?

To me, this is harassment and terrorism for a segment of our society who want nothing more than to live in peace with those they love.  How can these people call themselves Christian when they foment so much angst and hate?


This is a nothing more than a social wedge issue (4.00 / 3)
My guess is most of the organizers of the anti-equality group do not expect to win and are not even interested in winning. It's all about reminding voters about the Democrat's so-called "San Francisco agenda" and pulling into the GOP ranks a percentage of older, socially conservative voters who normally vote Democratic.

What happens next is the anti-equality organizers say they are victims of an out-of-control legislature and whine about how "the people" were denied the freedom to vote on this issue.  


[ Parent ]
Putting this in perspective (4.00 / 2)
I think that most proponents of this honestly believe that people agree with them and are honestly trying to repeal this law.   As the results come in, they are going to split into two camps.

Some will realize that they don't have the public support to pass a constitutional amendment.  They may shift their focus to repealing it through a bill.

Others will stubbornly explain away the results by ignoring the 2/3 requirement and ignoring the towns that defeated it by skipping over it or in deliberative session.  They will continue to focus on a constitutional amendment.

It will continue to be an issue this election which will probably hurt Republicans because most people want candidates who are focused on the economy and not divisive social issues.

This issue will hang around for another session or two.  There may more town meeting articles in the future.  It will fade away over the next 4 years or less.


[ Parent ]
Defeating Discrimination (4.00 / 7)
This warrant article appeared rather early in the evening in Groveton and was immediately designated to be a ballot only vote at the request of five petitioners. I got the feeling that the hope was it would slide through with out much notice. Not so because my wife and I were there to address this issue. We the point that the people we elected to make our laws had already done there job and defined marriage. More importantly, I pointed out that this article is asking the Constitution of the State of New Hampshire be amended to legitimize discrimination. Make no mistake that is the end goal of this effort. Defeating this warrant article would be an affirmation of our State Motto "Live Free or Die" and that all our citizens must have the right to live free of discrimination. This warrant article was soundly defeated by an almost two to one majority. 104 against to 57 supporting  

"THE WELFARE OF EACH OF US IS DEPENDENT FUNDAMENTALLY ON THE WELFARE OF ALL OF US." Teddy Roosevelt

Claims (0.00 / 0)
Bates claims that he just wants people to be able to vote and thats its not an anti gay warrent article.  If you look at the posts on his website and blog it shows something entirely different.

[ Parent ]
I'm glad (4.00 / 2)
I'm glad Bates and his crew couldn't get enough signatures to get it on the ballot here in Hudson.  Most of the supporters I've talked to have been mostly macho type right wingers while most of the nonsupporters have been mild mannered passive types, mostly women and men with some college. I'm not - I'm just old and ornery. I've lived in NH long enough to know the ones who always go to the town meetings are what I call the "nay sayers".  It takes quite a bit of energy to get the positive thinkers to go and face down the "no" people.

While it is uncomfortable (0.00 / 0)
to talk in stereotypes, I find this comment to be very perceptive.

It would behoove our side to be a lot more blunt.

birch, finch, beech


[ Parent ]
I Can't Tell You (0.00 / 0)
how disappointed I am that my town passed this piece of egregious crap, and how happy I am with how poorly it did over all.

I'd step up our opposition and move in closer than protection of rights.  We need to attack the idea (as some here have) that legislation by mob rule is a good thing.  Given the vagaries of town meeting attendance and voting, it really is far more democratic to have our laws enacted by representatives than by one time mass voting opportunities.  

A liberal listens to a conservative and says "You may have a couple of points there.  Let's try to compromise.

A leftist listens to a conservative and says "Your ideas are ridiculous.  Shut up and listen."



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