House Republican Leader Goes on Religious Tirade

I applaud his strict reading of Sharia law...n/t (4.00 / 1)

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by: measurestaken @ Tue Dec 14, 2010 at 20:32:06 PM UTC

The Democratic Party isn't our saviour either! (3.43 / 7)

I know I am going to get attacked for this, but I feel the need to defend David Bates.  (I am not endorsing his legislative agenda, I hasten to add.)

Mr. Kirstein misconstrues Rep. Bates's message, although the selectively edited quotes are not inaccurate.  Rep. Bates gave an address at the New England Solemn Assembly which was a (rather large) prayer meeting in Plymouth, Massachusetts, held on September 25, 2010.  If you see the whole thing in context, you can see that he is simply expressing his faith.  It's not a  tirade at all.  Here is the video:

I agree with the statement: "The Republican party is not our Saviour."  To that I add: the Democratic Party isn't our saviour either!

BTW, Rep. Bates is not from the Bible Belt: he was born in Waltham, Massachusetts.

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by: TimothyHorrigan @ Tue Dec 14, 2010 at 20:59:10 PM UTC

Doesn't Deserve A "Troll" Rating (4.00 / 4)

Tim's comment doesn't deserve a "Troll" rating from anyone, so my "excellent" rating is offered to balance it out at this point.  

Let's not get to the point that we think the Democratic Party is ALWAYS right, and cannot be criticized.  I might disagree a bit with Tim here, but his comments are certainly not over the top, nor is his selection of title.  

His final sentence says, "I agree with the statement: 'The Republican party is not our Saviour.'  To that I add:  the Democratic Party isn't our saviour either!"  

I think that comment by Tim is a fair assessment, and despite risking similar "troll" ratings I'll join him in saying so.  Our leadership isn't always right on every cause, and certainly within the Democratic Party we have wide diversity of opinion.  Let's hope www.BlueHampshire.com always appreciates that.  

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by: Rep. Jim Splaine @ Tue Dec 14, 2010 at 22:30:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'll concede (4.00 / 3)

that it wasn't a tirade per se.  But that mentality is anathema to human rights and equality.  To me, the context doesn't matter.  I don't want someone who thinks like he does in a position to take away a woman's right to choose, the right to marry, or any of the other rights the far right doesn't like.

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by: Timmy J @ Tue Dec 14, 2010 at 22:37:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I don't care (4.00 / 3)

what Mr. Bates message was at a prayer meeting. He can keep his religion to himself when he's speaking in MY house.  

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by: susanthe @ Wed Dec 15, 2010 at 03:13:25 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wanting To Control Others Is What Causes Many Wars (4.00 / 1)

I enjoy David and I've had some interesting heart-pumping discussions with him, probably increasing the blood pressure of each of us, and I think he has the right to his own beliefs.  He's certainly passionate about what he believes, and that's a good thing.  

The difference is, of course, that in serving the public in a diverse land such as ours, one must appreciate and respect our diversity, and not misuse the power of position or the authority of government to serve your own beliefs.  

It's amazing to me to note while watching his speech that he fears God so much.  I think we have a loving God, and I realize that Jesus never talked about gays and lesbians but surely talked about poverty and hate -- and didn't seem to like the latter at all.

Ohhh well, it must be a jolt to one's ego to believe that God talks to you, and that you know all when it comes to interpreting a version of The Bible you want to force on everyone else.  Wanting to control others is what causes many wars.  Sad.  

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by: Rep. Jim Splaine @ Tue Dec 14, 2010 at 21:38:33 PM UTC

wickedness etc. (4.00 / 1)

I certainly understand that David considers some things wicked which I would consider good... like marriage equality.  I think he is misguided at time, but I know he thinks I am misguided as well.

I got the feeling that Harrell was attacking him merely for being an evangelical Christian.  That didn't sit well with me, although this time I probably should have just suffered in silence.  I certainly don't endorse the specific political aims of the assembly David was speaking to.  Some of the NE Solemn Assembly's ideas are quite different from mine.  And even though I went to a Christian high school (the Northfield Mount Hermon School) which was rooted in the evangelical tradition, I am not part of his religious movement.

This may sound sacrilegious, but God probably fears us more than we fear Him (or Her or Them or It, as the case may be.)  We humans do terrible things in God's name, and frankly we have a lot more power over ourselves than He does.

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by: TimothyHorrigan @ Tue Dec 14, 2010 at 23:01:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Tim, Your Final Paragraph Is Fascinating... (4.00 / 1)

...because it raises the question, which I have pondered much, as to whether any of us human beings can possibly comprehend God.  

Our minds are so inferior on the evolutionary scale of the universe that perhaps we do not and cannot not understand The Almighty.  

I trust, though, that The Almighty is ever caring, ever loving, and ever accepting of all of us, and probably gets a bit of a chuckle about some of the things we do.  That The Almighty has given us the power to love does give us something to understand.

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by: Rep. Jim Splaine @ Tue Dec 14, 2010 at 23:08:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

There is a fine line here (4.00 / 4)

Rep. Bates is personally entitled to his religious views.

He crosses that line when he tries to pass legislation that fosters those views and denies me my freedoms.

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by: Putney Swope @ Tue Dec 14, 2010 at 23:53:42 PM UTC

Freedom of and from Religion (4.00 / 3)

This entire thread shows the reason for the First Amendment and why the concept of "Freedom of Religion" is so important.  The founding fathers knew that religious differences has led to wars in Europe and that the United States, already the home of many religions, had to be accepting of all religions or no religion.  As Thomas Jefferson said "The First Amendment creates a wall of separation between church and state."  Representative Bates is totally out of line but so are many others and that is the real problem facing us.

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by: ProfessorMike @ Thu Dec 16, 2010 at 01:46:05 AM UTC

There is nothing whatsoever wrong with Rep. Bates' speech. (4.00 / 2)

And no, I am not being ironic.

He stated his belief that this nation had turned away from righteousness, had called evil that which is good, and called good that which is evil.

He called for the nation to repent its evil ways, and to seek to follow the good.

And he made many references to God and to prayer in doing so.

Apart from his self-introduction and the passing reference to change coming in New Hampshire, there is not a single word in his speech that would have to be changed to have it fit perfectly in the mouth of Martin Luther King, Jr.

King would, of course, have delivered it far better, and would have had liberals nodding their heads vigorously in fervent admiration as they watched the grainy video decades later on YouTube, just as they would if a liberal black preacher were to deliver that speech today.

The evils that King had in mind, and that come to my mind today, are far different from what we have ample reason to presume Rep. Bates has in mind. But they share the conviction that there exists a level of morality to which we are answerable that we ignore at the peril of our souls.

Whether you call them societal approval and material pleasures, or the favor of the rabble and earthly treasures, it seems to me that we all here believe that the ability of the powers that be -- and of us -- to wallow blissfully in them without earthly consequence does not change the fact that they -- and we -- are damnable if the demands of that higher level of morality are spurned.

It speaks poorly of the religious awareness and sensitivity of a few Democrats to portray a religious expression of this conviction as a laughable tirade. It is a favorite hobbyhorse of the GOP -- the party of the moneychangers and Pharisees -- to denounce Democrats as contemptuous of faith and of anyone who professes faith. You do ill to bolster that GOP meme here.

As someone who would, if pressed, have a fair chance of accurately naming the year in which he last attended a church service, and as a Democrat, a member of the party that actually cares about feeding the poor, healing the sick, and comforting the stranger, I am offended and disappointed.

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by: Tim C. @ Thu Dec 16, 2010 at 02:34:36 AM UTC

I largely agree (0.00 / 0)

I definitely agree with the general point of your comment. We gain nothing by mocking sincere faith.

But in a public context, this line ... is a little over the line.

"the problem we have here in this country and in all of our states is that we no longer fear god."

I know how he means it, I think, but still.

Incidentally, HK, I'd wager that Bates uppercased the word G-d in his prepared draft.

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by: JimC @ Thu Dec 16, 2010 at 22:30:23 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

of course the big difference (4.00 / 5)

 is that Martin Luther King wasn't an elected official. He was a minister. It was his job to preach.

If David Bates wants to preach, he should go to the seminary, or get a regular gig as a lay minister. When he's in my house he can shut the hell up.

I also don't believe that someone who wants to end the marriages of my gay friends, and prevent all gay folks from getting married is answering the "demands of a higher morality."

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by: susanthe @ Thu Dec 16, 2010 at 23:35:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Bates is an ass (4.00 / 3)

I am not going to call him the South facing side of a Northbound horse, or provinvical, or a nice man. He is a judgmental prig and a horse's ass. He is as much saying he is closer to understanding what God wants for America than the average bear and that's why he was elected...otherwise why identify himself from the first as a 'State Representative from New Hampshire' instead a member of the whatever Fundamental sect religion he was preaching to, it was a status thing. What an ego, thinking he is so holy and elevated.

He is an embarrassment to all who are aware that there was an Age of Enlightenment. His talk of the true belief, the real angry vengeful God to whom we all owe obeisance, is fine for him I guess, until he invades my freedom of religion, liberty, equality etc.
I think his kind is as bad as they come in Government, and you Mr. Horrigan want to appease him. Is it a way to vitiate the offense you caused with your illiberal deathly comments on Gov. Quitter?

Thomas Paine said it best in his tome on organized religion;
"The Age of Reason"...written partially and then published in 1793 while he was imprisoned. He basically had seen that with the development of democratic government, established religions would need to insert themselves into civic life to rty and keep their hold over peopel. Paine was having none of it, and rather used science to deconstruct belief.

http://www.infidels.org/librar...
Paine, who coined the phrase "Religion of Humanity (The Crisis, vii., 1778), did but logically defend it in "The Age of Reason," by denying a special revelation to any particular tribe, or divine authority in any particular creed of church; and the centenary of this much-abused publication has been celebrated by a great conservative champion of Church and State, Mr. Balfour, who, in his "Foundations of Belief," affirms that "inspiration" cannot be denied to the great Oriental teachers, unless grapes may be gathered from thorns.

The centenary of the complete publication of "The Age of Reason," (October 25, 1795), was also celebrated at the Church Congress, Norwich, on October 10, 1895, when Professor Bonney, F.R.S., Canon of Manchester, read a paper in which he said: "I cannot deny that the increase of scientific knowledge has deprived parts of the earlier books of the Bible of the historical value which was generally attributed to them by our forefathers. The story of Creation in the Book of Genesis, unless we play fast and loose either with words or with science, cannot be brought into harmony with what we have learnt from geology. Its ethnological statements are imperfect, if not sometimes inaccurate. The stories of the Fall, of the Flood, and of the Tower of Babel, are incredible in their present form. Some historical element may underlie many of the traditions in the first eleven chapters in that book, but this we cannot hope to recover." Canon Bonney proceeded to say of the New Testament also, that the Gospels are not so far as we know, strictly contemporaneous records, so we must admit the possibility of variations and even inaccuracies in details being introduced by oral tradition." The Canon thinks the interval too short for these importations to be serious, but that any question of this kind is left open proves the Age of Reason fully upon us. Reason alone can determine how many texts are as spurious as the three heavenly witnesses (i John v. 7), and like it "serious" enough to have cost good men their lives, and persecutors their charities.

Amen to that brothers and sisters!

Rep. Bates if you could just keep your wrathful God image in it's place for next 23 months please ??? For you religion and Jesus and The New Testament is the word of God, and apparently a legislative roadmap for Republicans is one of the Apocrypha this session. To most earthlings its seen as metaphor, stories and lessons to help you live a better life. Go justify the punishment you are going to meet out to the poor sick and needy in New Hampshire some other way, but just don't try telling me to my face that what you do is God's will.

I love my God much more than yours. Mine is sweet, she shows love to the downtrodden, to all her children. If there is a god, and a day of reckoning, may a turnip grow upside down in your stomach.

note to close readers: this might be sarcastic so think twice before reading to candidates for use in their attacks on each other

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by: JonnyBBad @ Thu Dec 16, 2010 at 19:55:13 PM UTC

All Hail Eris! (4.00 / 3)

All Hail Discordia!

and this thing -

And don't appease Rep. Bates, Tim. Transactional politics should have boundaries.

"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden

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by: Jack Mitchell @ Thu Dec 16, 2010 at 21:55:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

FSM (0.00 / 0)

Pastafarians believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster...and those definitely look like meatballs.

note to close readers: this might be sarcastic so think twice before reading to candidates for use in their attacks on each other

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by: JonnyBBad @ Thu Dec 16, 2010 at 22:25:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

4 for "eris" in the title. (4.00 / 4)

birch paper; on Twitter @deanbarker

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by: Dean Barker @ Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:14:00 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

NNH Dems under fire for criticizing GOP House member's religious speech (0.00 / 0)

http://www.unionleader.com/art...

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by: Putney Swope @ Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 05:25:42 AM UTC

c'mon (4.00 / 1)

it was political speech given at a religious event couched in religious code words...you and I might as well shoot ourselves
in the head because when the rapture comes there's a special place in Hell for us...

note to close readers: this might be sarcastic so think twice before reading to candidates for use in their attacks on each other

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by: JonnyBBad @ Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 05:53:45 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You are safe (4.00 / 2)

Until The Crusades are won. Then, they will want their Holy Land back.

"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden

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by: Jack Mitchell @ Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 12:26:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'll see you there! (4.00 / 2)

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by: Putney Swope @ Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 12:43:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

In Bates's House district there are many McMansions. (0.00 / 0)

Come the rapture, dibs on Bates's house.

Hmmm....

Überchristians
+
McMansions
+
Rapture
+
Homeless
-----------------------
Wins all around!

And if all those convinced that the rapture is coming and that they're going up in it would just hurry up and get raptured already, there'd be a lot more peace on earth and goodwill among men.

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by: Tim C. @ Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 17:06:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

empty houses for the homeless to inhabit ? n/t (0.00 / 0)

note to close readers: this might be sarcastic so think twice before reading to candidates for use in their attacks on each other

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by: JonnyBBad @ Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 22:18:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Tired (4.00 / 5)

Aren't you all tired of being called socialists, communists, sinners, sinful? It is an effort to, literally, demonize progressives.  Yes, Bartes has the right to say whatever he wants to say, but we also have the right to be angry at what he says and to protest, loudly.  The First Amendment works both ways.

 



"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

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by: Kathy Sullivan 2 @ Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 13:12:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

tired old ethic (4.00 / 3)

Its the northern version of love it or leave it, George Wallace, and the _oral majority...it's hard to say I am sick of this though..that's so weak compared to how I feel.I was sick of this in 1966...today I am 59, a whole lot older and definitely get off my lawn crankier...I gave it straight and unvarnished to Stephen's bully boys at St. A's and if this chapeau derriere crosses my path he will get a very valuable shred of my mind.(rare, so little left)

note to close readers: this might be sarcastic so think twice before reading to candidates for use in their attacks on each other

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by: JonnyBBad @ Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 13:37:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Happy Birthday, Jonny... (4.00 / 2)

...BBad today!

Unless "...today I am 59..." just means "now" instead of that it's your birthday, but still BBad anyway.

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by: Rep. Jim Splaine @ Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 13:44:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

us heathens were 'under fire' from Bates God first...UL are copy cats n/t (0.00 / 0)

note to close readers: this might be sarcastic so think twice before reading to candidates for use in their attacks on each other

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by: JonnyBBad @ Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 22:20:39 PM UTC

[ Parent ]