Nullify Now Makes the Papers

Smoking Gun!!! (4.00 / 3)

Lucy

Incredible good catch!

That completes the circle.

How to go!!

Cz

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by: Chaz Proulx @ Mon Mar 07, 2011 at 22:08:15 PM UTC

Thank Victoria again n/t (4.00 / 2)

She quite the researcher, isn't she?

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by: Lucy Edwards @ Mon Mar 07, 2011 at 22:08:57 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ummm... (4.00 / 2)

that second bit about Koch and the Free Staters is a huge find.

Thank you.

birch paper; on Twitter @deanbarker

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by: Dean Barker @ Mon Mar 07, 2011 at 23:25:32 PM UTC

Is Koch Bros money hiding in plain sight (4.00 / 4)

in Grafton?

One hard-learned lesson for the big money funders is that frequently when you get some real grass in your grassroots movement, the corporate script is not followed as neatly as in  pure astroturfing. (Astroturfing refers to campaigns or movements that are orchestrated by special interests but masquerade as spontaneous grassroots uprisings.) The first offshoot of the Free State Project effort was in Grafton, New Hampshire and was as subtle as a Wall Street hostile takeover.  Locals say about $1 million was spent buying up properties and recording the names in limited liability corporations so the real money behind the purchase could not be discovered. But the Free Staters living in the homes were quite visible and vocal.  One man set up a web site to harass local officials, declaring: "This is a list of New Hampsters who have oppressed libertarians...Don't vote for them, don't hire them, don't buy from them, don't sell to them."  The list, titled "Blood Bath and Beyond"  named a Judge, the Selectmen, the Selectmen's Clerk, an attorney, a police chief, and various police officers. The web site has not been taken down.

Some of this is old news, but the Koch Bros are now a household name.  I think this demands revisiting.

It's one thing to have the Tea Party be an astroturf Koch operation.  It's a completely different thing for NH them to be the puppeteers for the Free State movement.  

birch paper; on Twitter @deanbarker

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by: Dean Barker @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 00:03:45 AM UTC

Old news... (0.00 / 0)

I suggest you compare notes with Pam Martens in Westmoreland.  She's written quite a few articles, filled with inaccuracies you'll likely want to include in your future rants against freestaters.

After her first article, a rebuttal fact by fact was compiled, http://forum.freestateproject....

However, she continued to write articles, repeating the same (wrong) information, and piling even more onto it. When the Koch Brothers meme began floating around, someone found her stuff online, and she got some national attention for a few of her 15 minutes of fame, as people quoted her 'research', never noticing the rebuttals.

Please please please, don't throw us into the briar patch!

I've heard the most outlandish rumors, and I will tell you plainly:  I wish those rumors were true - I wish Koch funding for all the activists were true.  I wish it was only astroturfing - because I know of so many who have worked long hours, lost families, potential wages and more, in order to do the activism that people like Pam try to attribute to someone paying them to do so.  If a Koch brother is funding this, he owes me and many like me a big check... and none of us have seen them.

BH's token Republican / Libertarian / TeaPartier / Free Stater, courtesy of a Federal Affirmative Action grant, despite many of his comments being marked down and hidden.

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by: SethCohn @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 00:20:16 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ha (4.00 / 1)

a rebuttal from Free Staters is worth it's weight in truthiness.  

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by: susanthe @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 00:28:23 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

That rebuttal says nothing about the Koch-funded groups (4.00 / 3)

that helped Dr. Sorens or the $1 million spent in Grafton using LLC names.

birch paper; on Twitter @deanbarker

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by: Dean Barker @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 00:48:38 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hah! What a baloney artiste! (4.00 / 2)

You said something.

Well, somebody else some something different! And my fellow-travelers responded! Here's a link!

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by: elwood @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 01:11:59 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Seth--I was in Grafton on the day the FSP met townspeople (4.00 / 2)

Don't know if you were there, but I witnessed a town facing the end of it's own way of life.

Say what you will, but I met Tim Condon.

I think more people should know more about the hatred this guy has dragged to NH.

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by: Chaz Proulx @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 01:35:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Mr. "Blood in the Streets" Condon (0.00 / 0)

is still spouting his hatred and threats.  

it may be avoidable only with blood in the streets. Either way, it's coming.

Can someone explain to me why, if they love the Constitution so much, the right-wingers keep introducing amendments to change it?

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by: NHFlatlander @ Wed Mar 09, 2011 at 13:59:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Tim's bark is worse than his bite... (0.00 / 0)

Tim and I have a love/hate relationship.
He and I don't often agree.

Yesterday's elections saw Free Staters elected to multiple town offices in multiple towns, including Grafton, as I understand it... seems to be working itself out there without any blood in the streets, always a good thing.

I wasn't there that day, but the entire 'Free Town' debacle was really caused by individuals who never moved, and were actually thrown out of the FSP.

BH's token Republican / Libertarian / TeaPartier / Free Stater, courtesy of a Federal Affirmative Action grant, despite many of his comments being marked down and hidden.

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by: SethCohn @ Thu Mar 10, 2011 at 04:02:32 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Of course (4.00 / 5)

Of course you don't know whose agenda you are working for -- that would spoil everything.

The rumor is Lenin used to call the do-gooder Western Communist sympathizers "useful idiots". Communist Party members in England and America really believed the crap the Soviets concocted for them -- they were in it for the IDEAS. They had very little idea they were pawns in a game that was about huge power clashes that had nothing to do with quaint worker's paradises.

Nobody is saying you get money -- that would imply you actually understand your part in this thing. You don't. You could, if you wanted to, but you don't want to. It's not just the Koch Brothers, it's the Think Tank foundations that have rewritten history since the seventies. Have you ever quoted or read Reason Magazine? Who are the funders? Scaife, Koch, etc. Who funded the renaissance of Rand and Hayek over their more talented peers? Again, you'll find that from soup to nuts this little underground movement has been a pet project of the uber-wealthy to minimize their "regulatory burden".

They, the billionaires, created the libertarian religion and mythology from whole cloth to get the little people to do their bidding. It's got about as much real history as Scientology when you peel off the outer layers.

So no, they don't pay you. It's much much worse than that.

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by: Mike Caulfield @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 03:46:14 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Conservatives don't want to be told what to do ("regulatory burden") (0.00 / 0)

mostly because they are incompetent to follow directions. They go on the offense to avoid being exposed. Their accumulation of wealth (things), which is usually supervised by someone else (in the Koch case it's a fellow named Fink) is part of the offense.  
What they really want is to rule without having to account to the people.  Private closely held corporations allow them to do that.  What is an LLC but a company whose liabilities (responsibilities) are limited (virtually non-existent). Their purpose is to secure personal assets from being lost as a consequence of poor decisions.  Actually risking the lost of their property is the last thing conservatives want to do.  Without their things, they are as nothing--hollow men. Nobody loves them; nobody will elect them; nobody will mourn them when they are gone.

Just look at what they name their secular temple. The American Enterprise Institute.  It's an enterprise that does nothing, produces nothing, creates nothing and only spouts verbiage.  Navel gazing that's well paid.

Conservatives are anti-social. That's not to say they're necessarily criminal.  To be social is to be caring and sharing and that implies knowing what other people want. Conservatives aren't capable of that. They can't help being anti-social.  Perhaps they were born that way--like Poor George with the silver foot in his mouth.
Since they're not capable of knowing what other people want, conservatives also can't negotiate.  Scott Walker is in the pickle he's in because he's being challenged to do something he doesn't know how.  He can barely do what he's told.

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by: hannah @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 09:02:36 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

This (0.00 / 0)

is why we don't want state legislatures nullifying federal law.

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by: Lucy Edwards @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 00:23:41 AM UTC

The basis for arguing that the "deprivation of rights" statute (0.00 / 0)

doesn't apply is found in this sentence:

to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws

Specifically, it can be argued that the Constitution "secures" no rights, since even those mentioned in the Amendments are referred to only as a basis for prohibited actions on the part of government agents.  It can be argued that the Constitution secures no rights, period.  If the ERA had passed, that would be different.  If the Convention on the Rights of the Child were ratified, the rights of children would be secured in the law.  

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by: hannah @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 09:26:38 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Shira was raised with a code (0.00 / 0)

older than the Founding documents...you can trust she'll be a seeker and revealer of fact. It is what she does.

note to close readers: this might be sarcastic so think twice before reading to candidates for use in their attacks on each other

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by: JonnyBBad @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 00:25:57 AM UTC

The Koch Project? n/t (0.00 / 0)

Hope >> Fear





Create a free Blue Hampshire account and join the conversation.

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by: Mike Hoefer @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 03:37:27 AM UTC

The Koch brothers fund the ACLU, but not the Free State Project. For real. (0.00 / 0)

Those Koch guys have their fingerprints all over the money being spent to make NH into it's own little country, run by the NH legislature, period.

All you found was that the Koch brothers funded an organization that funded research performed by Jason Sorens, who originally proposed the FSP, but who doesn't even live in NH.
(To be mind-shatteringly clear, this means that zero Koch money has made it to New Hampshire via the Free State Project. Not a dollar.)

Wow! What a revelation we have here!
The Koch brothers?? Funding libertarian research?? Say it isn't so!!

Not only that, but other people (notably Pam Martens) have already been blowing this three-steps-away-from-the-Koch-brothers relationship out of proportion for years. This is pretty old news. (I mean, you could've just asked.)

On the other hand, the Koch brothers donated millions of dollars to the ACLU to help their fight against the PATRIOT act. Apparently the ACLU, unlike the Free State Project, is an agent of the Koch brothers.

How many of you are willing to accept the logical implications of your thoughtless ranting?

Be fiscally responsible: nhecon.blogspot.com

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by: Will May @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 04:05:43 AM UTC

Oooh, For REALZ (0.00 / 0)

(To be mind-shatteringly clear, this means that zero Koch money has made it to New Hampshire via the Free State Project. Not a dollar.)

Can you prove that, Mr. Mind Shatterer? If you had an proof at all of your assertions, you wouldn't need to try the feeble attempt at diversion.  

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by: susanthe @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 04:22:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Fer realz (0.00 / 0)

I don't have the official FSP fundraising Excel spreadsheets on me, if that's what you mean.
But this is what I've heard from FSP leadership (who struggle with their tiny budget), and you can always, say, email the FSP prez and ask about it: carlagericke@gmail.com. (Hope she doesn't mind me passing out her email.)

There's also the curious situation we find ourselves in-- if the Koch brothers were funding the FSP, why didn't super-sleuth Pam Martens simply come out and say so? Why did she go through all the trouble of pointing out that the Free State Project was founded by a guy, whose research was funded by a few organizations, who received money from the Koch brothers?

While I appreciate the implication that I am a liar (as always), I don't feel that I earned it this time, so I'll have to deny it. You flatter me.

Be fiscally responsible: nhecon.blogspot.com

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by: Will May @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 22:05:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I didn't call you a liar (0.00 / 0)

I merely pointed out that asking us to believe anything, on your say so is ridiculous;  hence you engaging in diversionary tactics.

The Teabaggers deny being funded by the Koch bros, too. That's the beauty of the Kochs - they pass the money and the message to the upper echelons, and the elites let the messaging trickle down, while holding on to the cash. Hence, the rank and file at the bottom of the liberty barrel make all the noise about this being grassroots.

Republifreebaggers have been accusing Democrats and lefties of being funded by George Soros for years. All that accusation is now coming back to you - only this time it's biting your collective asses because it's true. Karma, baby.  

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by: susanthe @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 22:57:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Right. (0.00 / 0)

.

Be fiscally responsible: nhecon.blogspot.com

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by: Will May @ Wed Mar 09, 2011 at 01:22:53 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. (4.00 / 1)

There's no reason to question that the Kochs are in favor of civil liberties.  What they're against is their civic obligations, if only to pay for all the legal protections they enjoy.

But, the Koch interest in NH isn't primarily in its governmental structure; it's in the state's participation in the Regional Energy Compact, which is taxing carbon emissions into the atmosphere.  Disposing of waste in Mother Nature is supposed to be a human right.  Having been given dominion over the earth, man is entitled to despoil it as he likes.

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by: hannah @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 09:35:54 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Will--You still don't get it (4.00 / 1)

In the big picture you are on the wrong side.

Thanks for supporting the new guilded age.

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by: Chaz Proulx @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 14:22:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm not on anyone's side, Chaz. (0.00 / 0)

Though I did support Ann Kuster in her race.
Wasn't aware she was bringing in the new gilded age, whatever that is.

Is Chuck Weed part of this, too? I like him pretty well. And Kris Roberts.

I have been known to help out Andrew Carroll... who I guess is a moderate anarchist, if there is such a thing.

But then I've also been known to work with Jamie Contois at Working Families Win events, and the KSC Democrats, too.

And if you'll remember, I'm pretty fond of Pigovian taxes (like a carbon tax), as well as health care reform.
But these are part of the gilded age conspiracy, right? I'm sure you would never support those.

Anyway, the point is that, when I call myself a liberaltarian, I mean it. And as a liberaltarian, I'm on practically no one's side.

It can be hard to comprehend, but it's the truth.

So can we get off of this tired detour and return to the topic of the thread now?

Be fiscally responsible: nhecon.blogspot.com

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by: Will May @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 21:46:15 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

That's not true. (4.00 / 3)

Since the Kochs are funding the NullifyNow! conference itself, they are funding the New Hampshire Free State Project.

No matter how you guys launder your dirty money.

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by: elwood @ Wed Mar 09, 2011 at 00:08:13 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Actually, (0.00 / 0)

they aren't affiliated.

Be fiscally responsible: nhecon.blogspot.com

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by: Will May @ Wed Mar 09, 2011 at 01:03:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The NullifyNow! conference (0.00 / 0)

is being held in New Hampshire promoting the Free State Project agenda. Whether or not the people organizing it identify themselves as FSP activists doesn't change that.

Go sell this baloney to a more credulous crowd.

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by: elwood @ Wed Mar 09, 2011 at 01:14:03 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The argument is falling apart. (0.00 / 0)

If it's not important that the FSP itself is getting money from the Kochs after all, then why all the hubbub about it earlier?

Be fiscally responsible: nhecon.blogspot.com

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by: Will May @ Wed Mar 09, 2011 at 01:28:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

It doesn't matter how many false flags the Free State thugs use. (4.00 / 2)

They have an agenda; they are pursuing it with funding from the Kochs.

If you consider that the "argument has fallen apart" because that is established, fine.

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by: elwood @ Wed Mar 09, 2011 at 01:36:10 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

No thuggery intended. (0.00 / 0)

This is going nowhere fast, so I agree to stop the conversation here.

Be fiscally responsible: nhecon.blogspot.com

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by: Will May @ Wed Mar 09, 2011 at 02:24:04 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

FYI -- some history (4.00 / 2)

http://www.ipsn.org/court_case...

From the Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs

A NH connection, Bob Odell

Coalition for Our Children's Future is a nonprofit organization pursuant to section 501(c)(4) of the Internal Revenue Code. As a 501(c)(4) organization, CCF may engage in lobbying and other direct political activities so long as direct political activity is not the organization's primary activity. In fact, CCF, which was incorporated in June 1995, was conceived and operated as a political organization. Essentially, in 1995 and early 1996, CCF operated as a shadow campaign for the Republican National Committee (''RNC''), airing advertising in support of the Republican Balanced Budget and Medicare legislation at the same time the Democratic National Committee (''DNC'') was airing advertising on the same subjects. The idea for CCF appears to have been conceived within the RNC, and people who either worked for, or with, the RNC controlled decision-making by CCF throughout 1995 and 1996. In the one-year period between September 1995 and October 1996, CCF spent over $5 million on advertising. (note - 1) CCF has never engaged in any activity other than the creation and airing of advertising. CCF has no grassroots support but exists largely as a project of Republican fundraising consultants Odell Roper & Simms.

Recognize a pattern?

In 1995 alone, CCF spent $3.18 million on advertisements supporting the Republican positions on the Balanced Budget Amendment and Medicare. 2 Even after the demise of the Republican Balanced Budget legislation prior to the government shut-down in 1995, CCF continued to air advertising in key congressional races. In several instances, advertising appears to have been aired at the request of particular members of Congress or their staff, and paid for with funds raised by those members.

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by: hannah @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 09:55:14 AM UTC

Going national! (0.00 / 0)

TPM has picked up the story!  

Now remind me why NH, a little state, gets to have the first in the nation primary?  I thought it was our sensible, retail politics, the way candidates can come and talk to people in small groups in houses, etc.  We are supposed to be pretty canny judges of candidates.

Are candidates going to come to a state where the legislature wants to pick and choose which laws to obey?  Where there's a militia that no one really understands the purpose, or the command, of?  Where voter disenfranchisement is the law?  If we elected these people, are we a good place for the nation to start its presidential primaries?  

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by: Lucy Edwards @ Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 20:57:18 PM UTC