Is this for real?

I'm not sure (0.00 / 0)

what you're asking. Could you clarify?

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by: susanthe @ Thu Apr 07, 2011 at 20:02:25 PM CDT

I'm new at this... (4.00 / 3)

...both posting and legislating. I am shocked at these responses to people expressing their opinions to the people who are elected to listen to them.  I find it another example of the bullying that is all too common in this state house.  Must they be so nasty?  
As a rep, my inbox is full of messages from people expressing opinions and asking me to vote for or against legislation.  They take the time to write to us.  Even if I disagree, I should treat them with respect in my replies.
 

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by: Marjorie Porter @ Thu Apr 07, 2011 at 20:15:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

sadly (4.00 / 1)

nothing Frank McCarthy could do or say would surprise me.

Must they be so nasty? Some of them can't seem to help themselves.  

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by: susanthe @ Thu Apr 07, 2011 at 20:27:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

more from McCarthy (0.00 / 0)

McCarthy is not just rude to his constituents.  He posted the following to the "all reps" list on the legislative mail server.  This is a public document, so I feel justified in posting it.  (The context is that Steve Lindsay posted an except from a Concord Monitor article about Lee Quandt.  It was quite free of diatribes, even from Quandt himself.) Here is what Frank said:

After reading the diatribe below I have just one suggestion...Before sounding off to the press, or anyone else, one should have at the least a minimum amount of knowledge as to what one is talking about. I suggest at minimum one should read and if need be, get help in comprehending the meaning of proposed house bills rather than demonstrating ones ignorance to the world. The Monitor should verify before bleating.
Rep Frank McCarthy
Carroll (1)

The article, btw, can be read by clicking here: https://leg.state.nh.us/exchwe...

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by: TimothyHorrigan @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 14:22:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

nope (0.00 / 0)

one can't access the article without a password.  

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by: susanthe @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 14:53:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

April 7 Concord Monitor (0.00 / 0)

It's Schira Schoenberg's April 7 Concord Monitor article.  I can read it with no problem but maybe I am permanently logged in.

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by: TimothyHorrigan @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 15:26:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

your link (0.00 / 0)

is to something involving the nh state legislature.  

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by: susanthe @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 17:53:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

try this one (0.00 / 0)

http://www.concordmonitor.com/...

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by: TimothyHorrigan @ Sun Apr 10, 2011 at 12:45:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I agree.. (0.00 / 0)

I am really puzzled by Jim Belanger's response.  Your first example ridicules his constituent (bad manners and very bad politics). Belanger's?  

whp

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by: whp @ Thu Apr 07, 2011 at 20:31:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's a good example of a logical disconnect. It's also a good example (4.00 / 5)

of being offensive to deflect criticism, implying some fault in the critic and rejecting responsibility. Being offensive is a self-protective stance by an insecure person. Any criticism is seen as an attack and he's got to fight back.
It seems that persons with antisocial personality disorder are attracted to politics because they are attention-seekers and generally incompetent performers. It's estimated they make up 4% of the adult population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...

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by: hannah @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 02:56:02 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes... (0.00 / 0)

My rendition of his message with the evasiveness removed:

"Your inquiry is not important enough for me to represent to the legislature right now or even bother addressing with the degree of courtesy I would offer to one of my company's customers, because your concern about the wrong kinds of New Hampshire citizens - when you should really be thinking about the customers of banks - makes you an unfit citizen.  Here is a hoop for you to jump through, a special test to make certain that you're more similar to the acceptable kind of citizen - the customers of banks - which if you passed I suppose I could be bothered to take a look at your concerns and address them."

"But guess what, it's pretty obvious that I'm a  sack of shit anyways by using this tactic; I don't actually care at all what you think nor do I feel any responsibility or duty to any of my constituents, to my office, the history of the state of New Hampshire, or the Founding Fathers who came from this state that would require me to represent anything other than what I please.  I'm here for me and what ∗I∗ want and not for you or anyone else."

"So yeah, not only am I going to ignore you, I'm actually going to pretend to send you off on a wild goose chase after some special higher standard that you, as a citizen with the 'wrong' opinions, supposedly have to fulfill before you will be heard.  But even if you did what I'm asking you to do, I would pull the ball away at the last second like Lucy from Charlie Brown, watch you fly into a heap on the ground and point and laugh, and then go 'fulfill my duties' as though none of my constituents had said anything at all."

...yeah, "sack of shit" as I put it above fits the bill for me.  Look at his Telegraph profile where he clumsily tries to scold state teachers about some imaginary duty to seek out and work in communities where the pay is lower which he somehow thinks it's their responsibility to do but are "shying away" from - yet the above (the original email, up in the original post) is what he thinks of his actual, real, Constitutional duty to represent people as an elected official and make "wholesome and reasonable" laws "for the benefit and welfare of this state"?

Perusing further that section of the Constitution, I see that "The doors of the galleries, of each house of the legislature, shall be kept open to all persons who behave decently..."

Underlining mine; it seems to me that these two gentlemen, in so dishonorably shirking the duties of their offices while putting on airs that their own constituent needs to meet higher standards before her concerns might be taken into consideration within her own state's legislature, would be judged by the men who wrote our Constitution or the Founding Fathers of any other state in the Union as unworthy of even darkening the doorstep of the viewing gallery of the House much less the floor.  

They basically are not even pretending at this point to be "serving" anyone other than themselves in government.  Why didn't either of them respond with something about measures or safeguards to protect the people, businesses, and towns who will be "very badly affected"?

Because badly affecting them is the whole idea, that's why.

She said, "You should be ashamed of yourselves."  And they essentially responded, "Yes, we should be!" with a Cheshire Cat grin.

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by: Vis Unita Fortior @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 03:45:06 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

No understanding of collective bargaining (0.00 / 0)

I just read the Belanger's Telegraph profile where he suggests making all teachers State employees.

Good heavens, so much for shrinking the size of state government. Most teacher unions in the state have what, a a few hundred members per local, at most?

Belanger wants to put all teachers under one umbrella, which would create a bargaining group of approximately 15,000 employees? I'm very very very pro-collective bargaining, but the prospect of those odds literally me laugh out loud sitting in my chair.

Here's a few gems from an e-mail that was forwarded to me by a co-worker who lives in Belanger's district:

(He responds to her e-mail by name, but gets the name wrong)

You appear to know more than I do on HB2.

If I voted NO to every bill folks have contacted me on, we would never solve the budget deficit.

He then lists his voting criteria in order of importance:

1.  Will it raise taxes and/or cost my constituents more?
2.  Will it increase the size of government?
3.  What are the majority of phone calls, E-mails and personal contacts from about 9,000 voters in my district telling me?
    [Approx:  Hollis - 5,000;  Brookline - 3,000;  Mason - 1,000]
4.  Will it cause undue harm?
5.  Will it reduce taxes and costs to residents?
6.  Will it reduce State Income and endanger programs?
7.  What are my personal feelings on the issue?

Looks like before the vote, he was at least attempting to sound civil - although I will say the overall tone of the e-mail in its entirety felt a little condescending. If a constituent is writing to about specific provisions in a specific bill, you can spare them the 8th grade civics lesson.

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by: dooper @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 14:25:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Overwhelmed. (4.00 / 2)

That's exactly how I feel...overwhelmed by the sheer volume of unbelievable, crass, arrogant words and actions spinning out of the NHGOP like debris thrown out of a tornado.  It's like we're being so BURIED in this stuff that the individual events are just merging into one great blob of muck....

(I'm the poster formerly known as Thomas Simmons)

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by: Tully Fitzsimmons @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 05:32:40 AM CDT

Exactly. It's overwhelming, and by design. (4.00 / 4)

Amid all the hoopla we have seen in the past week, the House GOP has pushed through a budget that almost no one will read, but that will radically change the way state government functions. I already mentioned that the budget will permanently damage the tax department's ability to collect taxes by laying off half of its critical staff. This will take years to remedy, and in the meantime we will face self-inflicted budget cuts due to lost revenues. I read today that the budget will also essentially disband the AG's consumer affairs department, leaving all of us wide open to abuse by fraudulent business. There are probably dozens of other traps in the budget that have been set to destroy  government services that protect the commonweal we haven't even heard about yet.

These sorts of misdeeds don't happen by accident. They are planned , discussed, and agreed upon  in advanced. It would sure be useful if Democratic members of Finance who saw the bodies being butied could publish a summary of all that has been done.

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by: Mike Emm @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 07:17:32 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

The problem (4.00 / 2)

with putting together such a document is that what happened in the budget process is that almost across the board, the departments were told how much to cut, and asked for their recommendations as to where to cut it.  When one accuses either the Finance Republicans or Republican Leadership of gutting necessary programs, the response is that the Commissioner chose this place to cut, and that the Commissioner may make the cuts somewhere else if she or he chooses.

so we're back to asking if you want your right or left leg cut off, and then announcing that it is okay to cut off the left leg.

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by: Lucy Weber @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 07:37:12 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Rep. McCarthy to a NH constituent, "What the heck more do you want?" (0.00 / 0)

From: McCarthy, Frank
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 10:39 PM
Subject: RE: Budget vote

If it finally works out that you are wrong and property taxes do not go up as a result of the budget, will you admit that you and your liberal friends were wrong and vote straight republican in 2012? Where do you get your information anyway, the New York Times? We finally have a balanced budget (not seen here for years) No new taxes... whereas the dems increased taxes and fees more than 100 times during their four year tenure, No downshifting to cities and towns...dems downshifted close to 200 million dollars last year alone...no education donor towns...no borrowing, no bonds...What the heck more do you want?
Rep.Frank McCarthy

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by: Alexandra the Great @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 21:52:49 PM CDT

This person does not understand the meaning of 'no.' (0.00 / 0)

If he did, he would not inquire about "more" no.  No is an absolute to which neither more nor less apply.
That the legislature is not a secular authority tasked with issuing more prohibitions in line with some of the Ten Commandments has apparently not registered.
But then, the positive injunctions to honor parents and rest on the Sabbath haven't registered either.

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by: hannah @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 05:56:21 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

"balanced budget not seen here for years" (4.00 / 3)

Of all the inaccuracies spread around by the new Republican majority, this in one of the ones that ticks me off the most, particularly because even members of the press who ought to know better fall into the trap of using the phrase.

ALL NH biennial budgets are balanced.  The are required to be balanced, by law. They were balanced under the Republicans for decades, and they have been balanced under Democrats for the past two terms.

The "deficit" that is being referred to is that our revenues, under Republican majorities and under Democratic majorities, do not grow as fast as the costs of maintaining the previous budget's level of programs and services.  so each year, the question is whether to find additional revenue, or to eliminate programs and services.

The Democrats chose to find additional revenue.  The current Republican majority  is choosing to slash programs and services.

This is a policy decision.  Not a budget deficit.

Not a budget deficit.

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by: Lucy Weber @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 06:02:40 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

(Whoops) (0.00 / 0)

Did not intend the double last line.

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by: Lucy Weber @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 06:04:15 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Probably needed the emphasis! n/t (4.00 / 3)

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by: Lucy Edwards @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 06:06:05 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

McCarthy (4.00 / 1)

ran for the house unsuccessfully at least 4 times. He was finally elected this time, just because he had an R next to his name.

I saw him at the hearings on repealing marriage equality, and he told me that he thought he was at a hearing for a constitutional amendment.

A look at events transpiring at a recent Carroll County Commissioner's Meeting:

Hours later, Rep. Frank McCarthy said he made a mistake when he voted to save the livestock program's budget. McCarthy said he meant to zero it out. He asked for the matter to be reconsidered.

"I was confused," said McCarthy.

Representative McCarthy is confused, and lacking in any sense of civility, as we can see in his responses to NH residents. He had an epistle in yesterday's Conway Daily Sun where  he uses the term "morons" repeatedly. McCarthy has a great deal of time, apparently, to write to the Sun, this is his second piece in less than a week. The Democrats who held office in this district didn't have so much time on their hands, during the legislative session.  

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by: susanthe @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 08:41:44 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Rep. Malone, "Government is eating the private sector." (0.00 / 0)

Original email:

Dear NH Reps,
I am truly disappointed with the budget vote of last Thursday.  Will you cover the increase in my property taxes that this vote will cause?
You went to Concord on a platform of creating jobs.  All you are doing is destroying jobs.  What happened?

Response:

From: Robert Malone
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: Budget vote

The government is eating the private sector.

Rob

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by: Alexandra the Great @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 21:56:33 PM CDT

Note the use of the present tense. Conservatives exist (0.00 / 0)

in the ineffable present.  They've got no sense of time.
Clinton's reference to the "meaning of is" was as telling as Obama's assertion that he thinks before he speaks.  Both reveal an awareness of time as a continuum of past, present and future segments.  
Every civilization that develops a calendar provides evidence of an ability to think of sequence.  But, not all members have it and, indeed, as long as somebody's keeping time, not everyone needs it. Having a sense of time would seem to be like an add-on, an additional application or app, in computer speak.

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by: hannah @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 06:06:22 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

There are still a few (0.00 / 0)

human societies tucked away (I think they might still be there) that have this lack of sense of time.  It appears that it works well enough if they are isolated, but apply any outside stress and the lack of ability to use the directionality of time toward the future makes them very vulnerable.  Having a fascination with linguistics, I suspect this might have something to do with what words they have available to talk to each other about time and its "arrow."  
We have words that to some of us convey that we move into the future, no matter what we do, NO GOING BACK.  However, the meanings of the words have been hijacked by some.
Thinking out loud. Obviously.  

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by: Lucy Edwards @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 06:12:00 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I disagree (4.00 / 2)

conservatives are effable

"Freedom ain't nothing if it ain't free" -Kris Kristofferson

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by: JonnyBBad @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 08:32:29 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Effin right, Bro. n/t (4.00 / 1)

2012. Or sooner, in some cases.

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by: GreyMike @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 09:28:46 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

LOL (0.00 / 0)

The "here today gone tomorrow" app
The "arc of history" app
The "words have consequences" app
The "biblical slogans and their everyday application" app  (e.g. we are our brothers' keeper)
The "no man is an island" app
The "democracy means people get to participate" app
The "we are all in this together" app
The "absolute power corrupts absolutely" app
...


"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it." Albert Einstein

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by: susaninrindge @ Sun Apr 10, 2011 at 06:27:43 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Rep. Larsen to constituent, "I also encourage anyone who is concerned with the direction of the state to run for State Rep just as I did last summer." (0.00 / 0)

Original email:

Sent: Sun 4/3/2011 8:24 PM
To: Larsen, Kirsten
Subject: Budget vote

Representative Larsen,
I've yet to hear from you.  How did you vote on the budget last Thursday?  Please provide your rationale.

Response:

From: Larsen, Kirsten
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 10:38 PM
Subject: RE: Budget vote

Thank you for your note. Wednesday I voted in favor of HB2. Trying to balance a full time job that pays the bills with a full time volunteer responsibility, I unfortunately missed the vote on HB1 on Thursday. I will continue to support both bills whenever possible.

I need to consider the circumstances of all of my constituents when voting. The State of NH is in a bad financial situation because politicians have avoided making the difficult decisions for fear of not being re-elected. I choose not to base my votes on possible future election outcomes but rather what is best for our citizens now. A balanced budget is in the best interest for everyone.

We may not agree on every bill and that is why you have the choice next election, if I should chose to run again, to fire or re-hire me as you see fit. I also encourage anyone who is concerned with the direction of the state to run for State Rep just as I did last summer. Please continue to contact me with your opinions on all bills. No matter what, I do take all communications I receive into consideration when voting.

Respectfully,
Kirsten Larsen

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by: Alexandra the Great @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 22:01:36 PM CDT

Wow. (4.00 / 1)

Short Version: "I can't help myself, could you please put me out of my misery?"

They can't even parrot O'Brien's talking points correctly, it all comes out sorta garbled, and this one even seems a little plaintive.

I'll say it again: Wow.

2012. Or sooner, in some cases.

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by: GreyMike @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 22:12:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I am sure someone will run (0.00 / 0)

I am pretty sure one or more citizens will step forward to run against her.

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by: TimothyHorrigan @ Fri Apr 08, 2011 at 22:33:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Another good example of false attribution of agency. (0.00 / 0)

NH is in a bad financial situation because politicians have avoided making the difficult decisions for fear of not being re-elected.

Putting "because" in the middle of a sentence does not create a cause/effect relationship and the implied motivation/intent has no connection to an act, either on the part of the legislator who is writing, or those who came before. Indeed, motivation is irrelevant, but not in the mind of  a person for whom intent is the beginning and the end -- e.g. Bush invading Iraq to spread democracy.
It's what he meant to do and so it was done.

Perhaps that's what the "literal interpretation of the Bible" means.  

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by: hannah @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 06:21:54 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Rep Munck to constituent, "How do you see the state budget as increasing property taxes?" (0.00 / 0)

Email for Constituent:

Dear NH Reps,
I am truly disappointed with the budget vote of last Thursday.  Will you cover the increase in my property taxes that this vote will cause?
You went to Concord on a platform of creating jobs.  All you are doing is destroying jobs.  What happened?

Response:

From: Munck, Philip
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: Budget vote

One of the highest priorities of the budget was not to pass costs down to cities and towns and, indeed, not to increase any taxes.  This should help bring jobs to N.H. as witnessed by the recent decision of a major financial institution to relocate from Boston to Salem, NH.  How do you see the state budget as increasing property taxes?

Philip Munck
Representative, Somersworth & Rollinsford
Municipal and County Government Committee

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by: Alexandra the Great @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 06:36:24 AM CDT

Clandestine move for financial institution from Boston to Salem (0.00 / 0)

As described by the Boston Herald this week: http://www.bostonherald.com/bu...

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by: Alexandra the Great @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 06:38:45 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Rep. Panek to NH citizen, "You must not read the paper." (0.00 / 0)

Peter,
You must not read the paper. So I have included some links of articles showing jobs coming to NH (This paper is a democrat led paper).
http://www.fosters.com/apps/pb...
http://www.fosters.com/apps/pb...
We were also elected to get the State spending under control.. WE DID THAT.
We were elected to get jobs.. We are doing that (articles prove this).
We are doing what the citizens of NH elected us to do. If you feel that the poor need more help, please feel free to volunteer and donate. NH is the ONLY volunteer House and Senate in this country. If you feel that things need to change, run for election. But for every email I get not liking the budget, I get 20 emails from people thanking us for getting the state spending under control.
All the best.
Rep. William Panek

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by: Alexandra the Great @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 06:40:29 AM CDT

There should be aFOIA project (4.00 / 1)

to fact check these email claims.

Also, the lack of basic civility and humility in responses listed here are breathtaking.  Thank you for bringing the words of these public servants to light.  

birch paper; on Twitter @deanbarker

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by: Dean Barker @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 07:10:01 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Fosters liberal? (4.00 / 1)

Dear Rep. Panek:

It is very presumptuous of you to assume anything about what I do or do not read.  The fact of the matter is I am a very engaged member of my community and read several newspapers daily.  Your remarks to me, a citizen of NH, are condescending and a disrespect to the institution that you are a member of as an elected State Representative.

Additionally, you might want to hear both sides of a story before you stand on your soap box pontificating about how your vote on the budget was right and created jobs.  I would like to refer you to an article in today's Fosters (a Republican owned newspaper by the way) about the Albany Firm that is relocating to Rochester.    

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pb...

Facts for you to know about the Albany Firm:

~Relocation has been in the works since before your election in November.
~Relocation has been in the works since before HB 1 and HB 2 were worked on by THIS legislature.
~Relocation does not necessarily equal jobs.
~Relocation has nothing to do with the work that THIS legislature is pursing.

Thank you,
Concerned NH Taxpayer

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by: Alexandra the Great @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 06:41:45 AM CDT

Part of the reason Albany moved here... (0.00 / 0)

... is a collaboration/partnership with UNH's engineering department. Last time I check, UNH was still a public school, although if the Free Staters had their druthers...

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by: Mike Emm @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 06:52:46 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Rep Panek to NH citizen, "you should read the paper more." (0.00 / 0)

From: Panek, William
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 4:14 PM
Subject: RE: Budget vote

We ran on the platform of reducing government spending and smaller government.  This is what the people asked for and we delivered.  I am very sorry that you are disappointed with the budget but for every email I get like yours, I get 20 thanking me.  We did what we promised to do.

As far as the jobs, you should read the paper more.  500 new jobs are getting ready to come to NH. There are also many other companies looking at relocating.  We are delivering on what we promised.

Will Panek

Rep. William Panek
NH House of Representatives (Strafford - District 3)
Science, Technology, and Energy Committee

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by: Alexandra the Great @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 06:47:39 AM CDT

Will they hire (0.00 / 0)

...all the newly unemployed state and municipal employees?

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by: Lucy Weber @ Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 09:18:27 AM CDT

[ Parent ]