Social Security Cuts On the Table - TODAY!

"We'll raise the debt limit so long as you (0.00 / 0)

destroy your political party for three generations."

"Where do I sign up?" - Conrad

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by: elwood @ Tue Jun 21, 2011 at 21:49:55 PM UTC

they'll cave (0.00 / 0)

They've caved on everything else so far, why would this be any different?  

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by: susanthe @ Tue Jun 21, 2011 at 22:24:28 PM UTC

It's not caving (0.00 / 0)

if it's what they want to begin with.

In the immediate aftermath of Since the start of the financial crisis, the Fed/Treasury lent, spent, or guaranteed $28 $29 trillion to save the banking system.

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by: StraffordDem @ Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 01:44:25 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Conrad, yes (0.00 / 0)

Biden?
Obama?

Is this what THEY "want to begin with?" Don't they have some clout they can exercise?

""Hope is the dream of a soul awake.""

/French Proverb quotes.

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by: susaninrindge @ Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 13:38:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

All we have to go on are the realities. (4.00 / 1)

Reid and Obama delayed an agreement on the debt ceiling in December.  Why?  They couldn't see where the new Congress was going on debt reduction?  These are pretty smart people and I find it impossible to believe that they couldn't see this coming.

I've seen enough from the WH to believe that Obama honestly, but wrongly, believes that the debt/deficit is a big problem.  Look at the people he surrounded himself with - Geithner, Orszag, Summers, to name a few.  By allowing the Republicans to control this debate, the WH can avoid a base backlash by pointing to crazy Republicans while also getting what they want.

This national discussion on debt is probably welcomed by both the WH and the Republicans because the alternative is to discuss jobs, and neither wants that discussion right now.  Obama, ever the pragmatic politician, thinks he has too few options, while the Republicans are waiting until it's too late to do anything before 2012 to begin to raise the issue.  But you can see the outline of this as a campaign issue by looking at what Romney & Huntsman are saying in their campaigns nationally, and how our own Congressman (1st Dist) is beginning to co-opt the issue.  It's a dangerous game that the Dems are playing, and I think they lose.

Now, this is nothing more than an educated guess.  But it is based on behavior and outcomes rather than rhetoric.  

What do you believe?

In the immediate aftermath of Since the start of the financial crisis, the Fed/Treasury lent, spent, or guaranteed $28 $29 trillion to save the banking system.

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by: StraffordDem @ Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 15:06:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I would not have thought (0.00 / 0)

That the WH welcomed talk of the debt ceiling except that it gives them an opportunity to come off as protecting the middle class (most voters' entitlements.) I don't think the WH can point to "crazy Republicans while getting what they want" and really get voters behind them. They have to put up a principled fight which they are not doing. They are trading "republicans are crazy" for "we are impotent."  If they want this battle they have to fight to score any points.

I see the GOP side shaping up just as you outline. The election will be about jobs and Obama hasn't delivered.  The debt ceiling negotiations are a net minus for Obama both because he hasn't re-framed the debt issue, he hasn't protected the middle class and he's ignoring unemployment.

I am baffled. I am stupefied. I think my heart is getting in the way of my head and I cannot see what is there. Perhaps I need to draw back the veil....

""Hope is the dream of a soul awake.""

/French Proverb quotes.

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by: susaninrindge @ Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 19:23:23 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

they haven't (0.00 / 0)

used that clout yet, susaninrindge. So far, when negotiations come up, they cave in before the negotiations begin.

Don't forget who their first choice for Sec. of Commerce was.

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by: susanthe @ Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 22:43:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Recommend that people watch (0.00 / 0)

the documentary called Lifting the Veil.

Link:
http://metanoia-films.org/comp...

In the immediate aftermath of Since the start of the financial crisis, the Fed/Treasury lent, spent, or guaranteed $28 $29 trillion to save the banking system.

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by: StraffordDem @ Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 01:28:13 AM UTC

This is disgusting. (0.00 / 0)

Republicans know we have to raise the debt ceiling, but they're still holding the whole world hostage to get concessions from Democrats that they don't have either the support or any legitimate source of leverage to achieve.

Democrats shouldn't have to negotiate on partisan fault lines just to avert a legislatively-designed disaster scenario. They get nothing out of raising the debt ceiling, except the world continuing to turn on its axis. Republicans apparently aren't committed to that.

--
Hope > Anarch-tea
Twitter: @DougLindner

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by: Douglas E. Lindner @ Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 14:06:21 PM UTC

UPDATE: (0.00 / 0)

Reports are that Democrats are now saying that job creation should be part of deficit reduction talks.

"Hoo-Ah"

""Hope is the dream of a soul awake.""

/French Proverb quotes.

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by: susaninrindge @ Wed Jun 22, 2011 at 21:09:50 PM UTC