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The HB 542 Veto Override. It wasn't even close!

by: Bill Duncan

Wed Jan 04, 2012 at 18:25:27 PM EST


(When the parent objects that the history class doesn't cover the role of the Illuminati, the school must devise a custom-made curriculum - and the parent's demands are kept secret. - promoted by elwood)

HB 542 is about as dumb as it gets.  It is our Tea Party Legislature writing a bill for every fantasy idea that some freshman gets - in this case, J.R. Hoell, from Dunbarton.  Majority Leader Bettencourt said yesterday that we shouldn't pay attention to all those hair brained bills Republicans file, but he didn't tell us how to tell the difference.

What did it do?  It's short - just a thought, JR had....  Here is is: http://bit.ly/zB1Xx6

The Governor described it best:

Governor John Lynch today issued the following statement regarding the House's failure to override HB 542, which would have allowed a parent to determine if any course material is "objectionable" and require school districts to develop an alternative. The bill gave every individual parent of every student in a classroom a veto over every single lesson plan developed by a teacher:

"This bill had the potential to disrupt classrooms and learning across the state. It would have been difficult, and potentially costly for school districts to administer. I am pleased a bipartisan group of lawmakers in the House stood together to reject this severely flawed legislation which would have damaged educational quality in New Hampshire.

But it's only the beginning of this session's pain.  Look at the list of anti-public education bills on http://www.dnhpe.org.  You'll be amazed.  They are attacking from every angle.

The biggest bill this year might be the "Education Tax Credit" - essentially a voucher program.  Here's my critique: http://bit.ly/rVsO63 .  Takes the breath away.

But the House sustained the veto of HB 542 just over a month ago, so how did this happen?  (The Senate, of course, voted to override both times.)

See how, after the jump

Bill Duncan :: The HB 542 Veto Override. It wasn't even close!
The vote was 255 to 112.  They needed 245 to win.  The November 30 override vote was  244 to 130 (They would have needed 249).

O'Brien got 11 Republicans to switch from Nay to Yea:
Allen, Mary M r Rockingham 11 Newton
Azarian, Gary S r Rockingham 04 Salem
Charron, Gene P r Rockingham 07 Chester
Hess, David W r Merrimack 09 Hooksett
Hoell, J.R. r Merrimack 13 Dunbarton
Janvrin, Kevin M r Rockingham 14 Seabrook
Jones, Kyle D r Strafford 01 Rochester
Jones, Laura M r Strafford 01 Rochester
Proulx, Mark L r Hillsborough 15 Manchester
Simard, Paul H r Grafton 08 Bristol
Terrio, Ross W r Hillsborough 14 Manchester

And he got 12 Yeas who did not vote in the November 30 override vote:

Baldasaro, Alfred P r Rockingham 03 Londonderry
Blankenbeker, Lynne F r Merrimack 11 Concord
Brown, Kevin J r Hillsborough 26 Nashua
Daniels, Gary L r Hillsborough 06 Milford
Gonzalez, Carlos E r Hillsborough 17 Manchester
Graham, John A r Hillsborough 18 Bedford
Hogan, Timothy r Hillsborough 23 Nashua
Infantine, William J r Hillsborough 13 Manchester
Scontsas, Lisa E r Hillsborough 22 Nashua
Soltani, Tony F r Merrimack 08 Epsom
Sullivan, Kevin P r Rockingham 15 Hampton
Thomas, Joseph D r Hillsborough 19 Merrimack

And 3 who had voted Nay last time stayed home:

Ferrante, Beverly A r Rockingham 05 Derry
Hutchinson, Karen K r Rockingham 03 Londonderry
Sterling, Franklin W r Cheshire 07 Jaffrey

On the Democratic side, for some reason, Roger Berube (D-Somersworth), who had voted against the bill and against the override on November 30, voted this time FOR the override.  

Nine Democrats didn't vote (but they would not have been enough to make the difference):

Browne, Brendon S d Strafford 04 Durham
Domingo, Baldwin M d Strafford 05 Dover
Hofemann, Roland P d Strafford 06 Dover
Kaen, Naida L d Strafford 07 Lee
Levasseur, Nickolas J d Hillsborough 11 Manchester
Lindsey, Steven W d Cheshire 03 Keene
Powers, James F d Rockingham 16 Portsmouth
Rice, Chip L d Merrimack 12 Concord
Roberts, Kris E d Cheshire 03 Keene

This is going to be a long six months.  If you to track or analyze bills, let me know.

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Willing (4.00 / 1)
Absolutely willing to help tracking and analyzing education-related legislation - I will be doing that anyhow this session, so I am willing to help! I sent you an e-mail at the address listed in your profile.

The bill text (0.00 / 0)
from Bill's link:

Require school districts to adopt a policy allowing an exception to specific course material based on a parent's or legal guardian's determination that the material is objectionable. Such policy shall include a provision requiring the parent or legal guardian to notify the school principal or designee in writing of the specific material to which they object and a provision requiring an alternative agreed upon by the school district and the parent, at the parent's expense, sufficient to enable the child to meet state requirements for education in the particular subject area. The name of the parent or legal guardian and any specific reasons disclosed to school officials for the objection to the material shall not be public information and shall be excluded from access under RSA 91-A.


Thanks for enhancing my post, elwood... (0.00 / 0)


Defend New Hampshire Public Education by going to http://www.dnhpe.org

[ Parent ]
This was very very distressing outcome. (4.00 / 2)
As a lifelong educator and former public school teacher, the outcome of this vote is horrifying.

I was present at a sub-committee meeting on this bill.  The discussion did NOT center around controversial topics in subjects such as sex ed, but rather on the METHOD of teaching elementary mathematics.  The subcommittee members specifically mentioned Everyday Math.  They did not like Everyday Math because parents didn't understand it.  (Obviously they had read some screed about fuzzy math.)

As a primary grade teacher for many years, I began envisioning what my second grade math class might have been like under this law.  An hour a day to teach math, 20 kids.  Using the district approved math program with 10 of them, then being forced to teach by a different method and with different materials, with a different scope and sequence, 3 or 4 or 5 or more different lessons to different kids.

Do it all over again with reading and language arts, then science, then social studies...you get the picture.

This is supposed to make things better?


You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.  (John Morley, 1838-1923)


More work for lawyers - (4.00 / 2)
The sponsors may have intended this to allow a parent to force alternative teaching methods, but the bill doesn't do that. It allows for objections to materials.  

[ Parent ]
This is very interesting (0.00 / 0)
Have you seen HB 1516 ( http://tinyurl.com/78bhmtq ) in which the Education committee takes total control of the K-3 cirriculum, mandating certain hours a day of English and math instruction?

Defend New Hampshire Public Education by going to http://www.dnhpe.org

[ Parent ]
Here's a solution (4.00 / 1)
for parents of K-3 children who don't wish to have their kids subject to regular high stakes bubble sheet tests in Math and English mandated by legislators.

Per the law enacted today, they can object to that material and opt out.

Social Media Director for Jackie Cilley for Governor. Follow her on Twitter & Facebook!


[ Parent ]
Yes! (0.00 / 0)
The time mandates leave little time in a the school day for anything else--like social studies, science, phys ed, technology and computers, library, music, or art. (Who needs those things anyway?) Or lunch and outdoor play, or even hand-washing before lunch!

You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.  (John Morley, 1838-1923)

[ Parent ]
Marjorie.. (0.00 / 0)
If you're available to talk, would you email me?

Defend New Hampshire Public Education by going to http://www.dnhpe.org

[ Parent ]
Send me an email at my legislative email account so I have your address. (0.00 / 0)
marjorie.porter@leg.state.nh.us

You have not converted a man because you have silenced him.  (John Morley, 1838-1923)

[ Parent ]
fiscal impact (4.00 / 3)
FISCAL IMPACT:

The Department of Education states this bill, as amended by the Senate (Amendment #2011-2251s), will have no fiscal impact on state, county, or local revenues or expenditures.

That's a big fat lie.  


And what about the rights of the parents (0.00 / 0)
whose children's learning will be impaired by the distractions of competing (and/or conflicting) curricula? Following from Marjorie's post above, how is one teacher supposed to manage all of this mess along with already-existing accommodations for children with legitimate special needs?

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that this nonsense could be challenged in court (yet another expense).

Looks like these monkeys are all living in the land of unintended consequences.  

November 2012
Hope for a return to sanity.


I believe it is an intended consequence - (4.00 / 5)
to make public education completely unworkable.

[ Parent ]
Right (4.00 / 1)
These consequences are not unintended.  "School choice" is a cloak for replacing public schools entirely - with home schools, religious schools.  The politicians won't say it out loud, but the advocate organizations do.

The voucher bill is a big step in that direction.  

Defend New Hampshire Public Education by going to http://www.dnhpe.org


[ Parent ]
"Replacing" is the wrong word. (0.00 / 0)
Their goal is "eliminating" public schools.

If some people want to then find a private school and provide their children with education, that's their choice. If you don't have school-age children, these ignorant buffoons don't believe you should pay for someone else's private choices.

That "philosophy" is specifically outlawed by the New Hampshire Constitution - which is why they are trying to amend it.


[ Parent ]
Actually, (4.00 / 2)
I use the word "replace" because they actually do want to take the money that would go to public schools and put it into private, religious and home schools.

Defend New Hampshire Public Education by going to http://www.dnhpe.org

[ Parent ]
I guess my point is: (0.00 / 0)
thinking that this is about "whether our current school spending dollars go to public schools, or private schools" is a bit naive.

They want to drastically cut the AMOUNT spent, not just the destination.


[ Parent ]
Not really true (0.00 / 0)
if it's going to religious and home schools.

Defend New Hampshire Public Education by going to http://www.dnhpe.org

[ Parent ]
WHAT is going to them? (0.00 / 0)
A friendly bet: the same votes that support re-directing money from public schools to home schooling and private schools, will later vote for a constitutional amendment eliminating any enforceable state or local obligation to spend a nickel on education.

[ Parent ]
I should have included Exhibit A (0.00 / 0)
The voucher bill ( http://bit.ly/rVsO63 ), which provides for spending over $100 million of NEW money over the first 5 years to send public school kids to private, religious and home schools.  Twenty co-sponsors over the two versions of the bill.  All the leadership.  It's gonna pass (at first, anyway.)

Defend New Hampshire Public Education by going to http://www.dnhpe.org

[ Parent ]
I wonder, (4.00 / 2)
if I were a businesswoman thinking of relocating my business to NH, what I would think when I saw a law like this?  My understanding was that the real "NH Advantage" was the wealth of well-educated workers who already live here, and the great environment to raise a family for those who might might work here.  This whole agenda looks like an erasure of this advantage to the benefit of the rich retirees who come here because of the "NH Advantage" of supposed lower taxes.  Get rid of public education in my town and you will cut the property tax by 80-some %.  But no young family, unless they were rich enough to send their kids to private school, would ever move here.  And no, they wouldn't save enough in property taxes to send even one kid to a private school.  

[ Parent ]
Bingo! (0.00 / 0)
Well said.

So fewer than a dozen Christianist zealots could bollocks up the entire science curriculum of a moderate size school.  Lovely.

"... the milkman left me a note yesterday: Get out of this town by noon, you're coming on way too soon, and besides that we never liked you any way." -- John Prine  


[ Parent ]
I wonder, (0.00 / 0)
if I were a businesswoman thinking of relocating my business to NH, what I would think when I saw a law like this?  My understanding was that the real "NH Advantage" was the wealth of well-educated workers who already live here, and the great environment to raise a family for those who might might work here.  This whole agenda looks like an erasure of this advantage to the benefit of the rich retirees who come here because of the "NH Advantage" of supposed lower taxes.  Get rid of public education in my town and you will cut the property tax by 80-some %.  But no young family, unless they were rich enough to send their kids to private school, would ever move here.  And no, they wouldn't save enough in property taxes to send even one kid to a private school.  

[ Parent ]
Real-life example. (4.00 / 2)
A props of your wonderings, a constituent wrote me a very thoughtful email  in response to the Guns on college campuses and everywhere else bill.  She said that she absolutely would not consider paying money to send her children to a college which allowed guns on campus.  As Keene State was a big draw for her family, she is going to have some tough decisions should that particular gun bill become law.

The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. --Marcus Aurelius, courtesy of Paul Berch

[ Parent ]
Do any other states have this? (0.00 / 0)
And if so, how does it end up working out in practice?

Why would anyone with a family want to move to NH? (4.00 / 2)

I have always nurtured the hope that one of my children would choose to move to NH to raise their families.  No more!  Lessons are likely to be planned to cause the least amount of disruption by parents who want to control everything in a child's classroom.  I want my grandchildren to become educated adults who can think for themselves, not be taught some shallow ideology because that is the only material that is safe for the teacher to teach.  An old bumper sticker that made the rounds a few years back said "if you think education is expensive, try ignorance."  Looks like a majority of NH pols are going to give it a whirl.

These crazy bills designed to destroy public education should give pause to even the most die hard Tea Party/Free State conservative.  A poor education system in your town will lower your property values.  Destroy public education and see how much your lovely NH home will bring!  Good public schools are vital to a strong economy where everyone benefits.



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