The NH Advantage

Keene Sentinel frontpaged (4.00 / 1)

...the Monitor write-up, under the headline:

GOP activist cancels his visit.

In smaller type, the sub-head read:

O'Keefe worried about grand jury probe of his voter-fraud recordings.

Here is a fact that should help you to fight a little longer.
Things that don't actually kill you outright make you stronger.

Piet Hein, Grooks

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by: Lucy Weber @ Mon May 07, 2012 at 23:05:53 PM UTC

I think we just have an ID on voter crime (0.00 / 0)

But the Republicans hide

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by: tchair @ Tue May 08, 2012 at 00:56:38 AM UTC

Front paged on dKos (0.00 / 0)

Here.

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by: elwood @ Tue May 08, 2012 at 01:19:04 AM UTC

The little coverage there is (4.00 / 1)

focuses on O'Keefe, not the tacit approval of upstanding members of the GOP to listen to the troublemaker as entertainment at their event.  

Hope >> Fear





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by: Mike Hoefer @ Tue May 08, 2012 at 02:23:38 AM UTC

Some key takeaways from O'Keefe's cancelling his (4.00 / 3)

in-person visit to New Hampshire:

1. Despite the claims that the and his supporters made, the Attorney General's office believes that his group may have violated the law by impersonating voters to get ballots
2. O'Keefe is worried that they are correct: that he won't just have to answer a few questions, but will be arrested
3. The laws on the books today prohibit voter fraud, and are tough enough to deter even well-funded creeps like O'Keefe.

(And I agree with Mike that there is a separate and underreported story, on how the leadership of the Republican Party welcomes this gravedigging vote thief.)

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by: elwood @ Tue May 08, 2012 at 10:32:21 AM UTC

VOTE, Women (0.00 / 0)

as if your life depended on it.  It does.

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by: hannah @ Tue May 08, 2012 at 10:47:08 AM UTC

I will note (4.00 / 3)

that I do not accept that having a very regressive and unfair tax structure is an "advantage."  But then neither is having our "modern" NHGOP.  So the answer is B.  

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by: Lucy Edwards @ Tue May 08, 2012 at 11:13:13 AM UTC

I like B myself! n/t (4.00 / 1)

Hope >> Fear





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by: Mike Hoefer @ Tue May 08, 2012 at 13:24:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

My thoughts are (4.00 / 2)

that "no sales tax" is advantage enough given that NH is the only state in the region without one, and that it probably is an actual economic benefit to businesses in the state.

The effect that the lack of a sales tax may have on sprawl and land use aside, I think it's hard to argue that the malls in Nashua or Salem would exist on the scale that they do with a sales tax. The same is probably also true of the outlets in the tourist areas up north.

Plenty of businesses, as well as towns, tout NH's lack of a sales tax as one reason to visit the state. I doubt that gets most people, aside from the border-hopping every day shoppers, into the state, but coupled with outdoor activities and a beautiful landscape, it probably helps.

I never hear any businesses or communities touting the lack of an income tax as an attraction to the state. The growth of upscale suburbs just over the Massachusetts border shows that it is, but I don't see the economic benefit attracting border-hopping freeloaders provides.

If a lack of sales tax attracts shoppers to the state, it also spurs development that boosts local property tax bases and gets people spending money on taxable items, such as meals and hotels. In that way, I can see how the lack of a sales tax benefits businesses, while still adding money to state revenues.

But what benefit does a lack of an income tax provide?

Unlike sales tax-averse shoppers and visitors, income tax-dodging residents require services such as schools and infrastructure that NH's perpetual budget crunch show are hardly offset by the property taxes they pay. The lack of an income tax, despite being an incredibly wealthy state, means NH is forced to cancel programs that many residents rely on, that it cannot complete commuter rail that is vital to its future economic well-being, and that its state parks continue to deteriorate. How is any of that advantageous?

Beyond the fact that an income tax is more fair than a sales tax, I also don't buy the argument that not having the former is an advantage in the way that not having the latter may be. There may be tax structures other than the current one, which is clearly not working, and implementing an income tax, that would allow the state to provide the programs and infrastructure that residents (and visitors) want and need. But I have yet to hear of a viable alternative, and given that I have also yet to see how the lack of an income tax provides a net benefit to the state, I don't see how we can call it an advantage.

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by: FrankLloydMike @ Tue May 08, 2012 at 16:11:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Advantage? (4.00 / 1)

It's only an advantage if you have high-wage income. Renters think it's an advantage, but they commonly don't realize they're paying higher rents to the property owner who then pays the property tax.

I'm a small business loan underwriter for a living - I crunch numbers on lots of investment rental properties. Property taxes are one of the largest expenses the property owner must pay. Since the owners are looking to make a profit, and that's usually a specific rate of return, the rent asked after expenses becomes a simple math equation. And since all property owners in NH pay property taxes, the inflated rent expense paid is universal.

I'd say renters are paying about $200/mo/unit in property taxes on their apartments - and they can't write that off on their federal income tax return.

How's that for an advantage?

Running for State Rep 2012 in Hillsborough District 2
Aaron Gill, Deering: nhgill.com Twitter: Gill4NHStateRep

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by: nhveedub @ Tue May 08, 2012 at 17:01:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I assure you (0.00 / 0)

renters do NOT think it's an advantage to rent. I live in an area where the wage scale is about $10 an hour - but a one bedroom apartment starts at $650. To those  of us who would like to live by ourselves but don't make enough money, this does not seem even remotely advantageous.  

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by: susanthe @ Tue May 08, 2012 at 22:35:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

growth of upscale border suburbs (4.00 / 3)

Not sure the growth in pop of border communities can be attributed to people escaping income taxes -- too many of us work (and pay income taxes) in Mass. Then, we get to fight our elderly neighbors on fixed incomes over whether we can "afford" to put fire sprinklers in the school or whether to allow more developers to doze our green spaces to level out our residential rates. If we "win" we "lose" by paying more property taxes - all of which could have been mitigated if we just paid according to our ability.

But nooooooo.....

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by: Salem Blue @ Wed May 09, 2012 at 23:54:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not a blanket statement (0.00 / 0)

I didn't mean to suggest that everyone who moves to NH from Mass, or everyone in the border suburbs is a tax-dodging conservative--that's actually probably more the case in the equally Republican-dominated Lakes Region, where the very wealthy (ie: Mittens) either retire or establish luxury weekend homes.

I grew partially in Manchester and partially in Bedford. Bedford is not a border suburb--it's probably the truest suburb of Manchester, where about half the residents work, with far fewer commuting to jobs in Mass--but I'd say it's the northernmost of the  Republican-dominated suburbs.

While there are Democrats and even some old Yankee Republicans living in the border suburbs, some of whom may have even previously lived in Mass, a glance at voting patterns clearly shows that it is those towns--and the less populous Lakes Region--that are the Republican stronghold in the state. And as Andrew Smith pointed out from a study a few years back, the majority of the transplants from Massachusetts are Republicans. They may not have left the state specifically to dodge taxes, but according to Smith many did so because they perceived New Hampshire as more conservative.

So as more conservative Republicans move into the state, that perception becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course, everyone is welcome and free to move anywhere they like in the country, and as someone who is currently living in Massachusetts, I mean that with all sincerity. But the only "advantage" of the lack of an income tax that I see right now is making the state look attractive to people who don't want to pay for the sort of things that make the state great.

Again, that is by no means everyone who moved to NH from Mass, or everyone in the border suburbs, or even every Republican. I just don't think it's the message we want to send. And until I hear of a viable alternative to an income tax--there may be one, I just haven't heard of it--it's just one more reason to think that not having one is not an advantage to the state.

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by: FrankLloydMike @ Thu May 10, 2012 at 11:53:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I was just trying make make a Joke (0.00 / 0)

Joke about it being an advantage the the NH Press does not ask GOP Party leaders why they supported an event with O'Keefe and a legit tax policy thread breaks out!

Hope >> Fear





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by: Mike Hoefer @ Thu May 10, 2012 at 19:02:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Big article in the Union Leader online today. (0.00 / 0)

here.

About what you'd expect.

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by: The Money Magician @ Tue May 08, 2012 at 15:44:25 PM UTC

Yeah, (0.00 / 0)

we have this really bad voter fraud epidemic here in NH.  And across the country.  Sure.  
But it's just another in the enormous pile of lies the GOP, at all levels, is piling up.  I think we need to write a fable to help voters understand what's happening to them, because there is no way to dispute all of this prevarication one lie at a time, we'd never catch up.  We need to tell a really great story, something on the order of the emperor who has no clothes.  

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by: Lucy Edwards @ Tue May 08, 2012 at 19:20:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

New Hampshire A GREAT STATE TO LIVE IN IF YOU BE RICH (0.00 / 0)

Ohhh Your are not rich ????    Well it bites to be you !

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by: tchair @ Sat May 12, 2012 at 01:08:30 AM UTC