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Post-Game.

by: Dean Barker

Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 22:37:31 PM EDT
So: who won? And why?

Me, I think that one won, but more when I gather my thoughts.


My take: The "town hall" format was window dressing; this was a TV debate.  It was hard to watch it and not think Brokaw was favoring McCain.  Obama was more forceful without losing his respectful (read: presidential) manner.  McCain tried hard not to look and sound like a jerk, but nonetheless he acted like a jerk in his immature-ish jabs.  McCain got absolutely destroyed on health care and on Iraq, and he walked into his own undoing by stepping on Obama's speech at the end.

"That one" is a takeaway soundbite that could have deep, negative reverberations for McCain (or not; we'll see).

The bottom line, and nothing you couldn't hear equally from a Village of Villagers: even if you call this one a draw, it does nothing to move McCain up from his increasingly desperate position.  So, again, that one won.
Dean Barker :: Post-Game.
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Post-Game. | 46 comments
Well, here's what I think. (4.00 / 3)
Somebody looked and sounded presidential, and someone didn't. Nobody really said anything much new, but it's clear to me who is living in this century and can clearly communicate a vision.

Somebody was cranky looking and acting, nobody wants a cranky president except other cranks.

This is an absolutely non-substantial set of criteria, but with TV, appearances are everything. Remember that people who watched TV in 1960 thought Kennedy won, and people who listened to the radio thought Nixon did. The eyes have it.  

I'm voting for THAT ONE.
The other one is too cranky, and I'm not his "friend".

Kennedy-Nixon Debate: Image Prevails In First Ever Televised Debate (4.00 / 2)
GM remeber that this was the First ever televised debate. It was undefined, and defining.
The Image prevailed.



Without deviation from the norm, 'progress' is not possible.
~Frank Zappa

[ Parent ]
I think we just saw Barack Obama win the presidency (0.00 / 0)
Those three seconds from the debate Dean put on this posting tells the story.

"I'm not smart enough to run the economy."

- John McCain (r) Arizona

[ Parent ]
One more thing, (4.00 / 2)
we saw Obama effectively, swiftly, coolly, defend himself against bogus crap with no equivocation.

I'm voting for THAT ONE.
The other one is too cranky, and I'm not his "friend".
The awkward little secret: (4.00 / 2)
John McCain makes news with new policies in these debates: the League of Democracies, the Treasury directly buying mortgages and resetting the rates.

But nobody pays any attention.

It is not news, because he's going to lose.

Hall of Justice (4.00 / 2)
Maybe they can meet at The Hall of Justice?

Hope > Fear
[ Parent ]
On CSPAN (4.00 / 2)
Obama is STILL as we speak, shaking hands, signing autographs for, taking pictures with, and dialoging with all the "undecided" voters at the forum tonight.  STILL. I keep spanning the floor, seems like McCain has left the building.

Waking up on November 5th with no regrets.
The reason why Obama didn't want to debate you in a dozen town hall debates (4.00 / 2)
only needed one.

"I'm not smart enough to run the economy."

- John McCain (r) Arizona

[ Parent ]
Oh, did anyone mention (4.00 / 2)
John McCain looked OLD?
I resemble that remark. n/t (4.00 / 2)


I'm voting for THAT ONE.
The other one is too cranky, and I'm not his "friend".
[ Parent ]
And the breathing. (0.00 / 0)
The breathing was creepy.

And what do we reaalllly know about the Real John McCain, anyway?

Wonder if Sununu's fired now.

[ Parent ]
his real name is Eegore (0.00 / 0)
or is it Igor.

"I'm not smart enough to run the economy."

- John McCain (r) Arizona

[ Parent ]
we know (0.00 / 0)
that he has been serving his country for many, many years.  

Netroots Outreach Director for the Carol Shea-Porter campaign
[ Parent ]
Cranky (4.00 / 5)
He is cranky. Reminds me more and more of Bob Dole - and now I am showing my age, referring to an election 12 years ago?

Oh, and by the way, what was with McCain wandering around the stage when Obama was talking?  That also was odd.


Energy and persistence conquer all things.

Benjamin Franklin

I'm a strategist for the NH Coordinated Campaign

[ Parent ]
Stalking. n/t (0.00 / 0)


I'm voting for THAT ONE.
The other one is too cranky, and I'm not his "friend".
[ Parent ]
He couldn't sit down (4.00 / 1)
He had to keep standing up and then walking around to keep the joints-a-moving.  If he was standing still, he usually had one hand on his chair.  He couldn't keep getting up and down spryly like Obama, so he wandered about like an old man.

Waking up on November 5th with no regrets.
[ Parent ]
Careful, there - I do that too. (4.00 / 1)
Stay in one place too long and I lock up.

I'm voting for THAT ONE.
The other one is too cranky, and I'm not his "friend".
[ Parent ]
No offense intended... (4.00 / 1)
just commenting on the looking and ACTING old...
(no make up, audience too close)


Waking up on November 5th with no regrets.
[ Parent ]
I tend to walk around (4.00 / 2)
but I'm looking for my glasses.
[ Parent ]
they're on your head n/t (4.00 / 4)


Without deviation from the norm, 'progress' is not possible.
~Frank Zappa
[ Parent ]
CNN's Republican analysts (0.00 / 0)
are saying McCain did poorly.
New campaign buttons for the next three weeks: (4.00 / 9)
"I'm Voting for THAT ONE!"

I'm voting for THAT ONE.
The other one is too cranky, and I'm not his "friend".
ROFL! n/t (0.00 / 0)


Wonder if Sununu's fired now.
[ Parent ]
Seriously (0.00 / 0)
That one? Has anyone ever heard McCain use that phrase? Ever?

[ Parent ]
I just printed some stickers that say that. (0.00 / 0)
Planning to wear in Keene tomorrow if I can make it there.

I'm voting for THAT ONE.
The other one is too cranky, and I'm not his "friend".
[ Parent ]
New Facebook page: (0.00 / 0)
I'm Voting for That One!
[ Parent ]
Cnn poll says.... (4.00 / 1)
54-30, Obama, so that is a good thing.

Energy and persistence conquer all things.

Benjamin Franklin

I'm a strategist for the NH Coordinated Campaign
MSNBC's poll (4.00 / 1)
84 Obama

14 McCain

I'm waiting for Joe Scarborough's spin tomorrow on Morning Joe

"I'm not smart enough to run the economy."

- John McCain (r) Arizona

[ Parent ]
It's over (4.00 / 1)
A friend made the analogy today that Dem are sorta like Red Sox fans... cautious not to brag to early based on years of training and late season disappointments.

Our New England Puritan heritage probably plays into this as well.

McCain looks increasing desperate, with the sewage spewing from his mouth (ads, rally's). The media will turn on it within a day or two, and we will see the gap grow even bigger.

McCain? Goodbye to all that!

Hope > Fear

Hillary Helped Obama Tonight (4.00 / 3)
I think Hillary Clinton helped Barack Obama win the debate tonight.  Hillary made Obama a Top Class debater.  She would have been a much better nominee if she had won because of her contest with Obama, and Obama is much better today than he would otherwise had been if Clinton didn't push him to the wall.

We shouldn't ever be afraid of primary contests, either on the state or national levels.  Usually, they make the winner stronger.  Not always, as attested to the current lack of luster by Jeb Bradley, but very often.

And tonight, Barack Obama showed us he WILL be President.  And a mighty great one.  

Hillary (0.00 / 0)
was the best debater of either party's primaries.

Part of me wonders what she thinks listening to these two go at it.

You are absolutely right that she helped Obama in this respect.  He is much, much better than he was at the outset of the Dem primary debate season.

Wonder if Sununu's fired now.

[ Parent ]
Saw the last third or so (4.00 / 2)
Obama's "This is the guy who" speech, including the bomb, bomb Iran line, really took McCain's head off.  It was a perfect collection of evidence proving his point about McCain's complete lack of speaking softly. McCain himself grimaced, knowing he had no answer but had to respond.


The Republicans are complaining about the format (0.00 / 0)
I hear from Politico.com

The Republicans are complaining that format of the debate wasn't a town hall debate.

I say that when the rules of game slant your way and you still lose, shut up and go home!

"I'm not smart enough to run the economy."

- John McCain (r) Arizona

Brokaw (0.00 / 0)
From what I saw, I wouldn't say Brokaw favored McCain. I do feel like his body language telegraphed who he thinks will win.


At the Village Hall Style Debate (0.00 / 0)
f'ing Carville said it all.

"call in da dogs, wet da fahres, dis hunt is ova."
and all the CNN crew said huzzah huzzah for a minute or two.
He got 'em agin'...

Without deviation from the norm, 'progress' is not possible.
~Frank Zappa

Stephanopolis (4.00 / 1)
just said that the GOP plans to keep using the term, "THAT ONE."

I don't even know what to say about that.  

Netroots Outreach Director for the Carol Shea-Porter campaign

Time for us to use it too. (4.00 / 2)
Verbal jujitsu.

I'm voting for THAT ONE.
The other one is too cranky, and I'm not his "friend".
[ Parent ]
OMG (4.00 / 2)
Next week it will be "boy."

How many weeks left? Could be really low by the end.

[ Parent ]
Expecting Sarah to use the term "Boy" soon. (4.00 / 1)
I think the Republican are showing they are the Kings and Queens of sleaze.

I see, Lincoln, Grant, and TR rolling in their graves.

"I'm not smart enough to run the economy."

- John McCain (r) Arizona

[ Parent ]
Brokaw, again (0.00 / 0)
Just read the live blog; you guys were rough on Brokaw. Maybe I missed his worst moments.

But the more I think about it, Brokaw looked a) like he was bending over backward to be fair because he thinks McCain is going down, and b) a bit puzzled what happened to his old friend (no pun intended) John. Who is that mean man on stage? Doesn't he know that his losing means this guy is going to be president? If John McCain had nominated ... oh right.

It was partly that McCain played on their friendship (4.00 / 1)
He would walk over and make some weak joke - typically aimed at Obama - speaking directly to Brokaw, just assuming Brokaw would respond with a helpful chuckle.

Brokaw didn't have the discipline to just keep his mouth shut and look back at him.

But Brokaw also introduced his own questions, and they were questions that echoed the Beltway in distorting reality. "Everyone knows Social Security is in crisis that needs dramatic action."

[ Parent ]
Fair point (0.00 / 0)
Maybe I read his expression wrong.  Maybe it was guilt.
[ Parent ]
McCain mentioned Lieberman at least three times.... (4.00 / 1)
and Palin... zero.

I half expected Obama to point this out.... how McCain and Palin seem to have so many clashing policy ideas that maybe he should have chosen Lieberman as his running mate.

Also, I hope to heck the GOP really does run with the "That One" meme. He who has the last laugh, and all that.

Not as smart as I think I am, but not as dumb as I look.

And Sarah Palin, not once. (0.00 / 0)
Hmmm...buyers remorse?
[ Parent ]
You know, that one, the guy who became President after all. (0.00 / 0)


--
Get Out The Vote, Spread The Word, and Tell All Your Friends!
[ Parent ]
clarification (0.00 / 0)
That W-O-N

Netroots Outreach Director for the Carol Shea-Porter campaign
Post-Game. | 46 comments
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