More Pushback on Semprini's Shea-Porter Smear

but wait - there's more! (4.00 / 2)

My letter was published

and

Wayne's World...Wayne's World!

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by: susanthe @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 18:18:03 PM CDT

Party on, Garth n/t (0.00 / 0)

"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

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by: Kathy Sullivan 2 @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 18:41:37 PM CDT

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Awesome. (0.00 / 0)

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by: Dean Barker @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 19:16:58 PM CDT

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What I Hear (0.00 / 0)

People say, oh, all politicians lie!
Case dismissed.
The Wayne Semprinis of the world know this, and believe, not surprisingly, they can outright lie.

No'm Sayn?

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by: BurtCohen @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 10:14:01 AM CDT

Portsmouth Herald / CSP Bush Event discrepancy? (0.00 / 0)

Er, speaking of all politicians lying... this NHGOP press release posted over at RedHampshire does appear to demonstrate a contradiction, prima facie at least.  The two links at the bottom go to two different Portsmouth Herald news articles in which she appears to be contradicting herself.

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by: Vis Unita Fortior @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 18:57:08 PM CDT

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No. (0.00 / 0)

Read the story carefully. The NHGOP is intentionally misreading to story to continue the lie.

Democrats solve problems, Republicans sit and say no.

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by: Ray Buckley @ Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 06:33:06 AM CDT

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they must be desperate (0.00 / 0)

They must be getting desperate if they are actually acknowledging that George W. Bush served two terms a President.  They did stop short of admitting that he was a Republican, however.

The Repugs are making a questionable analogy anyway.  Yes, Carol Shea-Porter (and Sue Mayer as well) did get ejected from a Bush event.  But a peaceful protest is not the same thing as harassment or disorderly behavior.  Her actions were not analogous top those of the teabaggers.  

I might also add that she was also protesting something which was actually happening: the war in Iraq.  She wasn't just making stuff up.  There really was a war going on, and it was (and still is) illegal.  

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by: TimothyHorrigan @ Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 12:15:34 PM CDT

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Thanks for the advice on how to read. (0.00 / 0)

In case it isn't obvious the whole reason I posted here on Blue Hampshire was to get some enlightenment or other actual input on the differences between those two stories, not to get cryptic dissembling quips with advice on how to read.

The first link with the 2005 story says,

Susan Mayer, of Lee, and Carol Shea-Porter, of Rochester, were removed from Bush's Feb. 16 talk on Social Security for wearing T-shirts that said "Turn Your Back on Bush." The event was touted as a town hall discussion open to the public.

The second link with the 2009 story says,

Shea-Porter also said Semprini was false when he said in the letter that she "was removed for her disruptive behavior at a town hall-style meeting President Bush was hosting" which took place at Pease International Tradeport in February 2005. But Shea-Porter wasn't removed from the event (a Herald reporter who attended the event didn't see Shea-Porter removed).

The 2009 story doesn't say that she was removed for a reason other than disruption, it says she "wasn't removed".  I think it's a load of crap that the NHGOP press release talks about "fraud" but your dismissive suggestion to read more carefully does not reveal any flaw in my question.  If you don't want to give the impression that you're simply dodging the need for any response (to me) you had best get more literal.

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by: Vis Unita Fortior @ Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 13:45:34 PM CDT

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Oh, baloney. (0.00 / 0)

You seem to be trying to change the subject of the diary - which was Semprini's clearly established lying about Shea Porter at Bradley events.

You are talking instead about Shea Porter being ejected from a Bush event for her T-shirt - according to some newspaper reports, disputed by other newspaper reports. And then you are suggesting that the conflicting newspaper reports somehow make Semprini's separate claim that Carol was "removed for her disruptive behavior" credible.

They don't. Despite the careful Bush choreography of events, "disruptive behavior" does not mean wearing a T-shirt.

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by: elwood @ Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 15:04:37 PM CDT

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Apples and Oranges (4.00 / 1)

The outrageously disruptive, rude actions and unhinged hysteria on display here in NH and across the country by Republican activists cannot seriously be compared to sitting quietly until an event has concluded and then standing up wearing a t-shirt with a slogan.

The fact that Wayne Semprinin when caught in a lie refused to apologize and that the NHGOP instead sends out a new lie on Friday speaks volumes about the character of the current Republican leadership. Shameful.

Democrats solve problems, Republicans sit and say no.

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by: Ray Buckley @ Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 16:20:09 PM CDT

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Not trying to change the subject of the thread. (0.00 / 0)

I agree that Mr. Semprini was full of crap with his "waffle hats" comment.  I simply don't see any reason to excuse CSP from being full of crap as well, if that's the case.

I just wanted to find out if there was any intelligible response to the discrepancy pointed out in the NHGOP press release.  (I take it that there is no intelligible response.) I apologize if I should have started my own thread, it just seemed like this one was already pretty dead and my question was related to the Semprini thing.

But I'm kind of disappointed, elwood, that you evidently approve of Ray's legerdemain there in trying to send me off on a wild goose chase because he didn't want to answer the question.  Apart from outright lying I consider this kind of misdirection to be just about the most dishonest tactic in politics.

It makes me appraise quite differently some of the critical comments about Ray I've read right here on Blue Hampshire, which I'd previously dismissed as rants in the heat of argument or personal dislike.

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by: Vis Unita Fortior @ Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 20:58:54 PM CDT

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Just to make it clear (0.00 / 0)

I would have been perfectly fine with it if the response was something like "I don't know what's up with that, maybe the claim that she wasn't removed from the event came from the Herald writer."  But Ray has decided to try to make it look as if anyone acknowledging the discrepancy is confused or stupid or something; that is the only reason I posted those quotes above, because it's a real discrepancy and is not some mistake on my part the way Ray was painting it.

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by: Vis Unita Fortior @ Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 21:13:57 PM CDT

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Oh please... (0.00 / 0)

You are intelligent enough to understand that our congresswoman is correct. She was not removed for "disruptive behavior" - what don't you understand? Waiting until after the program of an event has concluded then rising from one's seat to expose a t-shirt saying "turn your back on Bush" is not disruptive behavior. Seriously now.

Disruptive behavior is screaming hysterically  and not allowing anyone else to speak like what the Republican activists have done coast to coast including right here in NH. Our congresswoman was removed because even silent dissent was never allowed at any event with Bush. The next line written by the Herald reporter is not in any way quoting our congresswoman. Read it again. Reporters do occasionally make mistakes and this is clearly an example of one. Your beef is with the reporter not our congresswoman.

So, no, there is no discrepancy.  

Democrats solve problems, Republicans sit and say no.

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by: Ray Buckley @ Sat Sep 26, 2009 at 22:24:16 PM CDT

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You are a major weasel, Ray (0.00 / 0)

"Read it carefully" does not in any way mean "I think the Herald published that in error".  Trying to retcon it that you weren't being intentionally deceptive here just makes you look all the more slimy to me.

(Plus, "the Herald published an error" but at the same time "there is no discrepancy"?  Evidently you don't really think I'm that intelligent.)

And of course, at no point did I ever even suggest that CSP was in any way disruptive at that event.  I do not think her participation in protests was disruptive at all, while I consider shouting loud enough to drown out other voices like the Tea Partiers have done to be completely disruptive.  So nice straw man.

White is black and day is night, eh?  I'm still glad I voted for Obama but you're just showing that politicians are politicians and the "hope and change" message was just waaaay too optimistic.  And furthermore that you're as entirely willing to take a page from Orwell as anyone in the Bush administration ever was.

When it looks like politicians are trying to pass off a crock of s**t it definitely needs to be and will be questioned.  CSP doesn't get a pass, even though I think she's generally an upstanding, honest, and good representative of the people of NH, and you certainly don't get to excuse yourself from scrutiny of your rhetorical tactics.

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by: Vis Unita Fortior @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 13:33:07 PM CDT

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Another point (4.00 / 1)

For the chair of the New Hampshire Democratic Party to repeatedly be deceptive in response to the question was probably the worst possible way to try to convince me that this can't have been an instance of our democratic Congresswoman being deceptive herself rather than an error in the reportage.

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by: Vis Unita Fortior @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 14:16:36 PM CDT

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You can twist yourself up into a bunch if you want (0.00 / 0)

but it doesn't make you correct.

Congresswoman Shea-Porter's words are being intentially misrepresented by the NH Republican Party because the realize the weakness of their presumptive nominee.

You can believe their tortured spin if you want but you won't get away with posting it on this site without getting called out on it.

I will repeat once again - there is no discrepancy  with what our congresswoman is being quoted as saying. A reporter added a line that is not attributed to our congresswoman. Why you continue to make yourself look foolish is beyond me.

Instead of continuing  the lies of the wackadoo wing of the NH Republicans why don't you ask Frank Guinta why he has failed to keep even one of his three promises from his mayoral campaign? Taxes are higher, crime is up, schools are worse.


Democrats solve problems, Republicans sit and say no.

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by: Ray Buckley @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 14:29:29 PM CDT

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Sorry, you still don't get a "Get Out of Underhanded Rhetoric Free" card (0.00 / 0)

No one is dumb enough to believe that when you tried to dismiss my question about the discrepancy between those two Portsmouth Herald articles by telling me to "read carefully", you actually meant "I acknowledge the discrepancy between what the Herald said then and now but I don't think it's what Carol actually said".  Nope, you were trying to sweep it under the rug and make me look bad for even asking.

Nor will "the Herald published something that's untrue but without even looking into it I'm certain there's no discrepancy, no siree, that word does not mean what you think it means" go anywhere either.

I didn't post anything to this site except a question and I have no truck with Republican spin, all I presented were facts.  And I don't accept your spin either.  (Bravo for being ultra-ironic in trying to dismiss Republican spin in the most dishonest and spin-laden way I could even imagine.)

Getting right down into the literal details of what the NHGOP press release was alleging and the evidence it put forward (albeit put forward in a silly and crowing tone not unlike yours) was all your idea, Ray, because you thought it would be more fun to be patronizing and dismissive and call me careless and now "foolish".

It's unfortunate that you decided to respond to my question with dishonesty - for you, at least; I get the benefit of having seen your true colors on an extremely minor detail rather than a question that matters.

I think the important thing here is your casual attitude towards the facts and your willingness to hit below the belt, despite your frantic attempts to drag attention over to CSP or the various Republicans you mention.  But I have decided that I am willing to give Carol the benefit of the doubt despite you.

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by: Vis Unita Fortior @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 18:03:17 PM CDT

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No "benefit of the doubt" needed (4.00 / 2)

There is NO claim, except for Semprini's lies, that she was disruptive at any event.

There IS a claim that she was ejected from a Bush event for her t-shirt.

She said that Semprini's claim she was ejected for being disruptive was bogus. She is correct.

It's freaking noble of you to be giving the benefit of doubt.

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by: elwood @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 at 18:14:40 PM CDT

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