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Equal Opportunity Under the Law, or Not

by: Dean Barker

Wed Apr 29, 2009 at 06:06:52 AM EDT
So today's the big day. Really, what else is there left to say that goes beyond what Salme and Ken Perry already said:

"We want everyone to have the opportunity to be able to enjoy the cherished relationship we often take for granted."



An Open Thread for this very important moment in the history of New Hampshire.
Dean Barker :: Equal Opportunity Under the Law, or Not
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Equal Opportunity Under the Law, or Not | 80 comments
I just realized I'm completely unprepared for a win on this (4.00 / 8)
I've been thinking through how to react to a likely loss: balancing slow forward movement with necessary retribution, re-stating the broader context, yadda yadda.

But if somehow we win 13 votes, and Governor Lynch allows marriage equality to become law? It will be a different world.

Virtually the whole Northeast will have declared for equality and community. Maine and then Rhode Island will feel the peer pressure - not us.

The greatest thing about this new world for a political wonk would be: Representative Democracy actually worked, without relying on the courts to demand change. We couldn't do it with race, but we grew up some since then.

Wouldn't it be nice?

Wonder how the silence compares... (0.00 / 0)
if you were to look up what various senators and other leaders stated about their support for the civil union legisltion a while back- what was said on BH? As a pres release? In the Monitor?

And compare that to what is not being said now and what public positions are not being taken.  

tie? (4.00 / 1)
I apologize for my ignorance...how would a tie vote be resolved?
On the motion to pass a tie vote is a defeat (4.00 / 1)
Reuters seemed to say something other than that, but a believe they were talking about a procedural vote before that. My Robert's is spotty, but the first motion might be a motion to table.

A tie vote on a motion to table would get us debate and allow a motion to pass to be raised. So it's not insignificant in that tabling this without debate would be an insult.

I think that's what Reuters meant.

But by itself a tie is not enough to pass it.


[ Parent ]
i think you have it right (0.00 / 0)
to put it another way:
a tie vote can niether kill nor pass the bill.
[ Parent ]
Fingers crossed! (4.00 / 2)
Believe me, Mainers are watching today and wishing our neighbors the best of luck!

If you decide to diary/ post links (live feed etc) over on PHB, I would be delighted to promote up to front page, Dean.

Our bill, LD 1020, isn't on the schedule for today (called Senate clerk awhile ago)- the schedule for tomorrow comes up at 4:30 pm and I'm on the email list. Oh, this could indeed put pressure on Maine to vote for the bill. Have heard it will be close...

thanks, Louise (4.00 / 1)
We're wishing Maine the best of luck, too.  
[ Parent ]
What do Grant Bosse, Steve Marchand, Charlie Sherman and Katrina Swett have in common ? (0.00 / 0)
On Charlie's show this morning the three panjandrums of the punditocracy agreed on the following read of the SEnate votes:

Marriage Equality         narrowly Fail
Medical Marijuana         narrowly Pass
Death Penalty Repeal               Fail

Bosse attributes their unanimity to it being easier to count to 13. He commented that since it would narrowly fail, a few Senators who might vote for it, were it to pass, will vote against it. Hmmm, not sure I get that, but I hear ya Grant.

Katrina attributes her reasoning on Medical Marijuana thusly,laughing "the Union Leader endorsed it"...I could see her with her palms up, with a 'search me' look.
Seriously, as a friend observed, "...that's just Drew being Drew" in refernce to the Libertarian leanings of the editorial writer for the UL. That's where I believe the moderate center of NH is too.Leave us alone, and don't use gummint to interfere in what we know to be good and right behavior. That includes staying out of thy neighbor's bedroom, boardroom, or gun rack.

Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer

now if we could just get the state out (4.00 / 3)
of the gender determination and discrimination business, that would be even better.

=Equal rights now!=
[ Parent ]
2 for 3 is not bad n/t (0.00 / 0)


Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer
[ Parent ]
live senate audio feed (4.00 / 3)
http://gencourt.state.nh.us/li...

=Equal rights now!=
listening (0.00 / 0)
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.u...

Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer
[ Parent ]
649 "Ought to Pass" 4-1 w/ Amendment for Medical Marijuana (0.00 / 0)
creates a study committee on distribution...

Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer
passes 14-10 Medical Marijuana n/t (0.00 / 0)


Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer
[ Parent ]
hb415 now (4.00 / 1)
fuller clark is right on.

=Equal rights now!=
wait a sec (0.00 / 0)
now she says that passing the bill will hurt T folks??

=Equal rights now!=
[ Parent ]
sorry I just can't buy that argument! (4.00 / 1)
Love Fuller Clark but sorry, this is REALLY not helpful.  

=Equal rights now!=
[ Parent ]
roll call (0.00 / 0)
unanimously voted ITL - ugh.

=Equal rights now!=
such a nice day theyw ent out for recess n/t (4.00 / 1)


Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer
[ Parent ]
reconvening at 1:15 (4.00 / 1)
lunch now

=Equal rights now!=
[ Parent ]
I have to go out this afternoon (0.00 / 0)
so hope someone else can keep tabs on the debate and fill us in.

=Equal rights now!=
[ Parent ]
what we're they smoking at lunch ? n/t (4.00 / 1)


Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer
[ Parent ]
Peace pipe (4.00 / 3)



[ Parent ]
nh senate today (0.00 / 0)
for those of us who can't access the live feed, can you keep us updated as to what's going on? also what does ITL stand for?
[ Parent ]
Inexpedient to Legislate (0.00 / 0)
Basically, that kills the bill. And a similar bill cannot be brought in until after the next election.
[ Parent ]
Dean's Title (4.00 / 1)
"Inexpedient to Lead" is still stuck my craw. Best title.

Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer
[ Parent ]
I thought that I heard Scambati vote against ITL (0.00 / 0)


support marriage - call Governor Lynch 603-271-2121

Sign the Petition http://www.nhftm.org/action/pe...
[ Parent ]
Can't wait to hear (0.00 / 0)
I can't wait to hear whether HB436 passes. I'm trying to prepare for disappointment, but I keep thinking about victory!
Here we go... (4.00 / 1)
1:30 and they're back into session.

IT for John Lynch '04 and NHDP '08 - I'm liking my track record so far!
is your audio stream working? (0.00 / 0)
Mine worked before the recess, but now I can't find anything, so I wonder if it's on yet?
[ Parent ]
Yes (0.00 / 0)
Mine is working. They just did a roll call on ITL...

IT for John Lynch '04 and NHDP '08 - I'm liking my track record so far!
[ Parent ]
is your audio stream working? (0.00 / 0)
Mine worked before the recess, but now I can't find anything, so I wonder if it's on yet?
[ Parent ]
Amendment? (0.00 / 0)
Anyone know what this is?


Hassan Offers Amendment (4.00 / 2)
all citizens have a right to a civil marriage or a religious marriage and every denomination has the right to accept or reject marriages.

Husband Wife Spouse   three designations

no marriage between more than two people

same sex marriages cannot be entered into by anyone under 18.

Marriages may be solemnized in one of two ways, civil or religious ceremonies. An affirmation of freedom of religion in that each faith has the right to affirm what they believe marriage is.

to be in effect 1/1/2010

would recognize Marriages from other states...

a/o 1/1/2011 all civil unions performed since that law passed would automatically become 'married' !!!

I type too slowly but there will be Tax Provisions to equalize under Federal Code



Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer

[ Parent ]
Also (4.00 / 1)
She said that Civil Unions performed out of state would be recognized as marriages here.

support marriage - call Governor Lynch 603-271-2121

Sign the Petition http://www.nhftm.org/action/pe...
[ Parent ]
OK, Bragdon states (0.00 / 0)
You got your civil unions, now shut up.

Marriage has "traditional meaning".

Vote ITL.


Carson: focus on ITL motion (0.00 / 0)
Confused by chair's amendment presentation.


ITL overturned! (4.00 / 2)
13-11!!!!!!!

President, NH Young Democrats
[ Parent ]
only D'Allesandro votes for ITL (0.00 / 0)
is this a done deal?
[ Parent ]
I am dying to know what this amendment is. (0.00 / 0)



Senator Reynolds overturns the ITL! (4.00 / 1)
Holy crap.

In favor of consideration of amendment.


ITL fails 13-11 (4.00 / 1)
Janeway proposes ought to pass.


Amendment appears to (4.00 / 1)
1) Preserve bride and groom terminology
2) Clarification of monogamy
3) Same sex marriages not available to those under eighteen.


Ought to Pass as Amended Motion (4.00 / 1)
Made by Senate Majority Leader Maggie Hassan.

President, NH Young Democrats
[ Parent ]
I can't get audio! (0.00 / 0)
Please explain what's going on! Did the amendment pass? Are they now voting on the bill as amended?
[ Parent ]
No vote on Amendment yet (0.00 / 0)
Only questioning regarding the amendment by GOP Senators.  

President, NH Young Democrats
[ Parent ]
GOP senator just now appealing to Governor (4.00 / 1)
sure seems live we've won this stage.
next GOP senator proudly standing up against... (4.00 / 1)
...polygamy.

throws in the fertility fallacy for good measure.

but (0.00 / 0)
polygamy is in the Bible!  
[ Parent ]
next GOP senator concern trolls on behalf of... (4.00 / 1)
civil union couples that may not want to upgrade to marriage!
Barnes, Letouneau etc. (4.00 / 1)
Hassan smacks down Barnes artfully...she worked on the documentation of this Amendment last night with Democratic Senators. She's talking compromise, Letourneau and Barnes represent the Republican wing of the Mastodon party....`

Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer
This looks done. (4.00 / 3)
The Dems were all in on this, except maybe Lou -- I expect a 13-11 vote.

This is wonderful.


I SO hope you're right Mike. n/t (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Maggie! (0.00 / 0)
Sen. Hassan did an extraordinary job explaining the amendment and answering questions ... today could see many champions of equality in NH.

President, NH Young Democrats
[ Parent ]
why oh why (0.00 / 0)
...can't I get audio? This is my only excuse not to be studying for a final tomorrow!
Gallus asks about Parental consent (4.00 / 1)
This bill says that no male below the age of 18 or female of 18 may be married under this statute. To have a same sex marriage both parties must be 18.

Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer
Reynolds speaks in support (4.00 / 2)
of compromise.

All is forgiven, Deb.  


Houde in Support (0.00 / 0)
"...not a matter of if, just a matter of when..."

Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer
finally a roll call on the amendment (0.00 / 0)
same exact votes as before.
I have to go to work (4.00 / 1)
Ride on PaleRobber

Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer
[ Parent ]
Floor Amendment 1446 up for a vote Roll Call: Adopted (0.00 / 0)
13-11 Adopted
now on to third hearing of the bill

Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer
Refresh Button: BFF (4.00 / 2)


The giant blogs for progress.

now a recess so that... (4.00 / 3)
...a GOP senator can read all the text of the amended bill he already knows he's voting against.

meanwhile, the sweet muzak of equality is playing.

Poor Maggie (4.00 / 1)
What must she be going through, attempting to explain the amendment line by line to Jack Barnes...
[ Parent ]
Precisely.... (0.00 / 0)

It's not like Gatsas is going to learn anything new.  I can't believe he said a public hearing was warranted. How many damn public hearings has the House and Senate already had on marriage equality? This is the same sorta tactic the GOP and other opponents of same-sex marriage used during the Vermont House debate.  
[ Parent ]
and they're back, about to vote n/t (0.00 / 0)

and it passed, yes?! (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Marriage Equality passes the Senate! (4.00 / 3)
13 to 11!!!!!!!!

President, NH Young Democrats
Garth.... (0.00 / 0)

What's in the amended version?  
[ Parent ]
see my summary above (0.00 / 0)
sorry I live internet radio blogged it...so far one addition to language  

Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer
[ Parent ]
See Johnny B and Mike C. above. (n/t) (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
2 answer Dean's question ... (4.00 / 1)
Yes, equal opportunity under the law.

President, NH Young Democrats
[ Parent ]
it's not online (4.00 / 1)
Since it was a floor amendment, there's no text online, although I imagine the media may get a copy up later today. Took this from Jonny BBad's comment above b/c he's summarized its key points well:

the right to accept or reject marriages.

Husband Wife Spouse   three designations

no marriage between more than two people

same sex marriages cannot be entered into by anyone under 18.

Marriages may be solemnized in one of two ways, civil or religious ceremonies. An affirmation of freedom of religion in that each faith has the right to affirm what they believe marriage is.

to be in effect 1/1/2010

would recognize Marriages from other states...

a/o 1/1/2011 all civil unions performed since that law passed would automatically become 'married' !!!



President, NH Young Democrats
[ Parent ]
might actually be Groom, Bride, Spouse n/t (0.00 / 0)


Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer
[ Parent ]
HB436 passes (4.00 / 3)
My only hope now is that Gov. Lynch stands with equality for all of NH citizens.

"Just because you do not take an interest in politics, doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you" - Pericles, 430 BCE
Has it technically passed final vote? (4.00 / 1)
Or is it just in third reading? With a final vote later?


also, the amended version has to get a house vote n/t (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
snip from the Monitor..... (4.00 / 3)
The New Hampshire Senate voted, 13-11, today to allow adult same-sex couples to marry, approving an amended version of a House-passed bill after a vote to kill the legislation altogether failed by the same margin.

The bill passed by the Senate recognizes a distinction between civil and religious marriages and allows religious denominations to decide whether they will conduct religious marriages for gay or lesbian couples. Civil marriages would be available to both heterosexual and same-sex couples under the law. "This bill recognizes the sanctity of religious marriage and the diversity of religious beliefs about marriage while still providing equal access to civil marriage to all New Hampshire citizens," said Sen. Maggie Hassan, an Exeter Democrat.

The legislation cannot advance to the governor for his signature or veto unless both houses approve the same version.


"Just because you do not take an interest in politics, doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you" - Pericles, 430 BCE

[ Parent ]
link (4.00 / 1)
http://www.concordmonitor.com/...

Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them -- a desire, a dream, a vision. -Muhammad Ali
1942-, American Boxer
[ Parent ]
Live Blog from the Senate? (4.00 / 4)
I freaking love the fact that we have a 70+ comment live blog on the proceedings in the Senate.

Unbelievable!

Hope > Fear



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Equal Opportunity Under the Law, or Not | 80 comments
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