Republicans Obsessed with Gay Marriage

I loved the "Dick Cheney sneer" line when I read this n/t (4.00 / 1)

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by: Vis Unita Fortior @ Wed Jun 03, 2009 at 10:18:49 AM CDT

It's because they are running out of wedge issues. (4.00 / 1)

Gay Marriage and Abortion are about all they have left. They haven't figured out how to govern and win elections without wedge issues.

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by: mamamarti @ Wed Jun 03, 2009 at 15:37:36 PM CDT

NHGOP on the budget. (0.00 / 0)

We had some fun with the NHGOP website's commentary on the budget back when that was on their site: "Rebellion Without a Cause"

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by: This Was The Moment @ Wed Jun 03, 2009 at 19:19:42 PM CDT

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.......... (0.00 / 0)

The Democratic Party has become the party of Pro-Abortion and Gay Rights.  If you're not onboard with those issues you might as well leave the party.  

Let's call Pro-Choice what it is, it means you approve the ability to abort a pregnancy for just about any reason at anytime without the feeling of guilt.  I personally don't approve of abortion and I certainly don't approve once you can discern a heart beat, about 6-8 weeks, but I recognize the need to abortion due to medical necessity, incest or rape.  But at the same time; there is birth control and the morning after pill whichs prevent an egg from ever attaching to the uterus, isn't that the responsible answer for most abrtions.  If you've ever gone to website that shows the development of the egg to a fetus I guarantee your opinion will change.  I just ask that anyone getting an abortion should be required to view a sonogram of thier developing embryo if it is 4 plus weeks from conception before they have an abortion.

I strongly support individual rights from no helmet laws and no seat belts laws to Civil Unions which I appluaded NH's early law.  What I don't support is the need to co-opt the 1000's year old definition of traditional marriage to validate the Gay Rights acivists feeling about thier committed relationships.  Civil Unions were supposed to provide all the rights, privileges and responsibilities of traditional Marriage given to husbands and wives, to gay committed couples.  The activists went too far and I will not support Lynch again or my other Legislative representatives that supported HB73 come the 2010 elections.  I'm no zealot, but frankly I've had it with the overly progrssive turn in NH's politics.

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by: moderatejoe @ Wed Jun 03, 2009 at 22:44:57 PM CDT

Goodbye. (4.00 / 1)

You will also find that this community is not for you.

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by: elwood @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 05:27:13 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Progressives and tolerance don't mix (0.00 / 1)

I thought this was a blog to share ideas and have thought provoking discussions.  It never ceases to amaze me that the progressives can only think as a solidary unit and only accept the position of the collective.  It's like trying to talk to the Borg on Star Trek.  Isn't freedom of speech one on your greatest tenents.  There is a whole lot of room in our society for civil debate, but neither can happen with the extremes of both parties.  NH used to be a state of free thinkers until the influx of Mass ex-patriots came in and tried to turn this into a one party state like Mass.

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by: moderatejoe @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 18:29:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Bye, troll. (4.00 / 1)

What a surprise. Someone who picks the name "ModerateJoe" turns out to be a right-wing troll.

Gee, the name really fooled me.

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by: elwood @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 19:01:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Goodbye. (4.00 / 1)

You will also find that this community is not for you.

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by: elwood @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 05:27:13 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Calling people "progressive idiot" (4.00 / 3)

Calling people "progressive idiot" is going to tend to detract from the credibility of your claims that you're just here to respectfully disagree rather than to attack people.

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by: Vis Unita Fortior @ Fri Jun 05, 2009 at 08:09:37 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

You're right I stooped to El's Level (0.00 / 1)

I guess I reacted strongly to being called a RW Troll.  I like discussion and debate, but opposing or moderating views seem to be condemned around.  I find this very surprising because progressive's purport to be a very accepting crowd.  My moderation gets trashed as LW whackjob on conservative sites.

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by: moderatejoe @ Fri Jun 05, 2009 at 13:57:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

What Is Moderation? (0.00 / 0)

My moderation gets trashed

mod·er·ate  

adjective
4. Opposed to radical or extreme views or measures, especially in politics or religion.

Moderatejoe, you'll have to explain how you're moderate to the gang here.

You had three paragraphs up there in your introduction, 2 1/2 were "right wing".

intransitive verb
2.To act as a moderator.

There should be a little disclaimer for all new people just to make sure that if they work for the GOP or they use the GOP's talking points that they'll probably get a negative reaction.

This site has been down that road before, and it'll happen again -- there should be a balance between a hijacking by outside sources and respect for the possible newcomers who may just not realize how the things they're saying come off.  

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by: Andrew Sylvia @ Fri Jun 05, 2009 at 19:18:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

2 1/2? (0.00 / 0)

Paragraph 1, I stated Pro-Abortion vs. the PC friendlier term of Pro-Choice and Gay Rights, and if you weren't onboard you had to leave the party.  I think that is true, just as the opposing points are GOP membership strongholds.  I think both are facts, but I displayed my opinion (note paragraph 2 for the details) when I used Pro-Abortion as opposed to Pro-Choice because choice sounds much nicer.

Paragraph 2, I stated my personal nonapproval of abortion, but I recognized the need at times; early less than 6 weeks preferably, rape, medical necessity.  I'm completely on board with sex ed; contraception knowledge and the morning after pill.  But I'm for responsibility and the goal should be to prevent unintended pregnancies; abstinance is a goal, pragmatism requires education and contraception, mistakes require knowledge and responsiblity to use the morning after pill.  Then if you must abort, do it early.  I don't think the above is RW as it wouldn't work on a GOP site that's for sure.  I know this site doesn't like my responsibility point of requiring the women to view the sonogram before having an abortion, but I'm about responsibility.

Paragraph 3 - I supported the early adoption of Civil Unions and maintaining Traditional Marriage; man and woman, husband and wife.  It was the rights based position to hold.  I don't support Gay Marriage or as it is euphormisticly called Marriage Equality.

In the 3 paragraphs I'm guilty of not using the pro-activist labels of Pro-Choice and Marriage Equality, but I'm much closer to your points than you give me credit for. A RW site would condemn me for not having a religious or moral position on these points.  A RW site would condemn me for not agreeing life began at conception, I'm more like 6-12 weeks.  A RW site would condemn me for my position on Sex Ed, Contraception and the morning after pill.
A RW site would condemn me for supporting gay rights, which I do, just not to the point of co-opting the traditional definition of marriage.  I've vacilated most of my life between moderate Democrat to moderate Republican.

There are a lot more of us out there than you think.  When the activist branches of the party push too hard people shift to the middle.  Thats why Gore Lost and Kerry Lost.  McCain lost because of Bush not because of McCain's position it was a pendulum swing issue.  Like I said it appears that this site only likes a lock step position and I never see any debate; just a lot of high fiving.

The RW would say I was 2 1/2 LW, opposite your point.  I think, I'm 2 RW.  I also support decriminaliztion of Pot, in fact let's sell it at the state liquor store to Mass residents to reduce our taxes.

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by: moderatejoe @ Sat Jun 06, 2009 at 11:16:20 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well Elwood, You Were Right (4.00 / 1)

There are a lot more of us out there than you think.

Nah, you'll just find more names for yourself, IndependentNH.

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by: Andrew Sylvia @ Sat Jun 06, 2009 at 11:43:47 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's A Shame, Too. (4.00 / 1)

It'd be nice to have some differing opinions on here that were differing opinions from real people, not differing opinions from from GOP strawmen.

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by: Andrew Sylvia @ Sat Jun 06, 2009 at 13:12:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Fair Enough (4.00 / 2)

I just ask that anyone getting an abortion should be required to view a sonogram of thier developing embryo if it is 4 plus weeks from conception before they have an abortion.

I think that anyone who opposes abortion rights should be required to adopt an impoverished 14-year-old girl and her unwanted fetus.  

That person must also take care of their medical expenses (since Bush slashed Medicaid and CHIP), college education (. . . and slashed student loans and Pell Grants), and living expenses (. . . and slashed child care benefits and the minimum wage).

Only then will that person not be considered a hypocritical, right-wing troll.  

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by: Dartmouth Dem @ Fri Jun 05, 2009 at 19:18:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Did I say I opposed abortion rights? (0.00 / 0)

The point you highlighted in my post was clear, I'm about responsibility.  If the poor impoverished child didn't have the sex ed and tools to prevent a pregnancy.  Then her getting an abortion is an option, hopefully fairly early in the first trimester.  Seeing the songram is taking responsibility, and I don't understand why progressives have such a hard time with that concept.

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by: moderatejoe @ Sat Jun 06, 2009 at 11:22:34 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

"Taking Responsibility" (0.00 / 0)

Here are four reasons why your plan sucks:

1. Many women don't even know that they're pregnant six weeks in. This is especially true with teenagers -- those most vulnerable -- whose monthly cycles often fluctuate wildly.

(Female BHers, you might be able to talk more intelligently about this.)

2. Abortion rights IS about "taking responsibility" -- nothing more, nothing less. Women (with guidance from their loved ones and clergy) have the legal right to decide how, when, and with whom they should start a family.

Folks like you would like this decision to be made by folks like Rush Limbaugh, George W. Bush, and Antonin Scalia (old white men all).  We disagree.

3. If you really believe that abortion is murder, then looking at a sonogram is NOT "taking responsibility."  A lengthy jail sentence -- for both the woman and doctor -- would be.

I think most people realize that aborting a multi-cell zygote the size of my fingernail in not murder.  It is a family planning decision that is none of the government's business.

4. If you really believe in responsibility, than electing anti-choice politicians who oppose sex ed, the morning after pill, and family planning is NOT the way to promote it.  The Bush Administration and GOP Congress slashed funding for these critical priorities, both at home and around the world.  They were too busy casting judgments on vulnerable women to, you know, help them.

Bottom line: Women do not take abortion lightly, and they don't need you (or "pro-lifers") to give them moral perspective on family planning decisions.  

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by: Dartmouth Dem @ Sat Jun 06, 2009 at 11:57:26 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

The gray areas have the most difficult debate... (0.00 / 0)

You are correct, I don't have a uterus and assuming you do, you have a different perspective.  You get the chance and responsiblity to carry new life into this world.  I've said it a number of times; I accept the need for abortion.  But I think the Pro-Choice advocates push too far, not wanting any limits trying to ensure the abortions available to those needing them.  Kind of like the gun rights advoactes who don't want restrictions on assault weapons.  

At some point between 6-12 weeks a new life is developing well beyond the finger nail sized zygote.  There's a heart beat and it reacts to prodding and its gender is discernable.

I'm all for helping the young disadvanted girl in need of an abortion.  The responsibility I'm talking about is that she needs to understand what she is aborting and this plus adequate sex ed should keep her from coming back again for another abortion.

You wear your contempt clearly on your sleeves, yes I'm a middle aged white guy and I'm not as smart as a rich life experienced latina women.

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by: moderatejoe @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 08:06:48 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I can tell you WHY (4.00 / 2)

You don't have a uterus.

How can you even imagine that what transpires between a woman and her doctor is ANY OF YOUR BUSINESS?

Your medical decisions are not up for scrutiny, are they Joe? Would you feel comfortable having a group of women make YOUR medical decisions for you? Hell no - you have a right to privacy, don't you?

What makes you think it's any different for me? My uterus, ovaries, etc are not public property.

Bottom line - it's none of your fucking business. That's why.  

member of the professional left  

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by: susanthe @ Sat Jun 06, 2009 at 12:10:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You're right to a point. (0.00 / 0)

At two weeks into a pregnancy you are 100% correct.  At 30 weeks into a pregnancey you are 100% wrong.  The rational debate lies within the boundaries.  Most state's will lock you up if you try to commit suicide.  

The further one's position comes from being rational the quicker one resorts to profanity.

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by: moderatejoe @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 08:14:14 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

so, middle aged white man (0.00 / 0)

you won't mind if I get a bunch of women to stand around in front of your urologist's office with big placards reading:
IMPOTENCE - GOD'S PLAN FOR YOU?

How many unwanted babies have you adopted, fauxmoderatejoe?

I feel certain you will continue to avoid my question, but how is it that you imagine that women's medical decisions are any of your business?

member of the professional left  

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by: susanthe @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 09:00:11 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

overly progrssive ? (4.00 / 1)

funny locution...you want progressive politics up to a point.
Phil Ochs tune "Love me I'm a liberal" comes to mind...

http://www.cowboylyrics.com/ly...

...

I cheered when Humphrey was chosen
My faith in the system restored
I'm glad the commies were thrown out
of the A.F.L. C.I.O. board
I love Puerto Ricans and Negros
as long as they don't move next door
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

snip

Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose...

Annie 2012!

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by: JonnyBBad @ Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 06:48:07 AM CDT

Phil Ochs was (4.00 / 3)

absolutely, completely awesome...  

"[Brinck Slattery is a] political attack dog for hire" =Ray Buckley

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by: Brinck Slattery @ Fri Jun 05, 2009 at 09:33:34 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I have his 'graph n/t (0.00 / 0)

Annie 2012!

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by: JonnyBBad @ Fri Jun 05, 2009 at 10:24:59 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not a relative? n/t (4.00 / 1)

"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

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by: Kathy Sullivan 2 @ Sat Jun 06, 2009 at 13:38:13 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Great voice n/t (0.00 / 0)

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by: JimC @ Tue Jun 09, 2009 at 11:39:31 AM CDT

[ Parent ]