Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Briggs

This, and the diary that spawned it, are so tiresome. (4.00 / 5)

And where can I find sources for those quotes? Or links to those websites?

Try to think of what this diary reads like to someone outside of the city walls of Manchester who knows nothing about this person and tv station and this endless feud.

 

birch, finch, beech

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by: Dean Barker @ Sun Aug 30, 2009 at 22:10:02 PM CDT

Amen n/t (4.00 / 1)

Whack-a-mole, anyone?

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by: Jack Mitchell @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 06:44:09 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

thanks for the corrective n/t (4.00 / 1)

for transparency sake ~I represent Union print shops

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by: JonnyBBad @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 09:58:25 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

The instructions on the getting started page for creating links (0.00 / 0)

are perhaps a bit difficult to follow.  You might consider adding the link tool to the editing functions to reduce tediousness. :)

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by: hannah @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 07:01:25 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Wakey! wakey! (0.00 / 0)

I, on the other hand, wonder what your "tired" critique adds to the discussion. Why do you read, much less comment, on things that make you tired. Is it that you are so far above these street level disagreements? It is clear to me that this dispute between Sullivan and Levasseur is important to them. Slap downs like this one seem to me inappropriate and ineffectual. From what I see, the result is no diminution in the discussion of the thing you find so boring, and annoyance and resentment from those who are involved or interested, as you clearly are not. I don't need you to direct my interest much less to attempt to terminate it.

I bet you have collected quotes, as do I, from meetings you attended, articles you read, afronts you have received. Is your point that the people who are quoted didn't say these things? That the UL didn't publish the quote as listed?

I would suggest that this is exactly the kind of additional information that people living outside of Manchester would like to have if they haven't personally experienced the "screaming." Evidently the "feud" continues as does the screaming. I am glad to be forewarned as I find these confrontations both demeaning to the participants and unhelpful in terms of increasing my understanding of issues.

My recommendation, just don't comment at all. The point of the screaming is attention getting and slap downs play right into the mix. I think many people are turned off by the "old hands" and their "old squbbles." Insiders may still be pulling the strings but rarely do they result in the puppet jumping any more. On some other sites I have seen the practice of inserting an interesting recipe.

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by: xteeth @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 07:36:26 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hmm. (0.00 / 0)

I don't need you to direct my interest much less to attempt to terminate it.

Yet the above preference has not stopped you from commenting critically on my diaries and those of others whenever it suits you.

birch, finch, beech

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by: Dean Barker @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 17:59:47 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Dean, your own bias is showing (2.00 / 4)

You might not realize it, but you are coming across as the classic Upper Valley/Cheshire County progressive who looks down there nose at all things Manchester, who views the political life of the Queen City with a smirky sense of condescending superiority. Frankly, I find THAT tiresome and more than a little offensive.

Levasseur and Briggs are candidates for office. Levasseur, in particular, makes a big deal about his Republican affiliation and his quasi-conservative ideology. The involvement of these two characters in an election in the state's largest city is important, especially to those of us who live here.

I would also add that some of us have invested a considerable amount of time, grief, and effort in our efforts to change the political culture in this city. When the likes of Levasseur and Briggs fight to defeat bright and promising new faces like Garth Corriveau and Patrick Arnold, it's a matter of concern to everyone-D, R, or I- who cares about intelligent discourse and progressive governance.

If you think we Mancunians are a bunch of ill-bred baboons, that's your prerogative. But the fact that a classics teacher from the countryside isn't engaged in the ebb and flow of Manchester politics does not make it appropriate for you to post comments demeaning our very real concerns.

America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand. -Harry Truman

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by: Peter Sullivan @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 09:05:26 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Why do you have to get (3.43 / 7)

so nasty and personal? Your last paragraph is way over the top.

I don't mind discussion of Manchester politics issues and things. But it seems nearly all the Manchester diaries devolve into mud slinging, personal insults and ascribing motivations  to people that are most likely untrue, That's where the problem lies.

BTW, Dean isn't demeaning your concerns. You and some of your compatriots are. You called yourself and others from Manchester "a bunch of ill bred baboons" and are ascribing that to him. It's dishonest and wrong.

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by: Jennifer Daler @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 09:43:54 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

It is frustration (4.00 / 4)

Peter has been the subject of a lot of disgusting attacks. People who have been on the receiving end of this stuff forget that people outside of the city have not experienced the totality of the ugliness.  Hence the frustration.  



"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

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by: Kathy Sullivan 2 @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 10:09:26 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

"We are one big dysfunctional family," (0.00 / 0)

Pindell is ahead of the curve, AS USAUL:

But Manchester has a way of eating its own with a passion that is unparalleled. Part of this is fueled by the city's media outlets, most notably the lively cable access channel: MCAM. Part of it is an outgrowth of the immigrant and ethnic enclaves that make up the city's past. And there's no doubt that the pugnacious piling on of the Union Leader in its heyday set a local tone for the bombastic.

What happens in Manchester politically matters statewide. Manchester has nearly 10 percent of the state's population and some of Manchester's local politicians have more name recognition and have raised more money than most state senators. Yet the city's politics stunt political ambitions. No Manchester politician has been elected to a position higher than executive councilor in 15 years. In most cases being from Manchester was a liability.

Whack-a-mole, anyone?

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by: Jack Mitchell @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 10:55:33 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

That quote is from me. n/t (4.00 / 2)

2012 starts today.

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by: Ray Buckley @ Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 09:38:29 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

A classics teacher (4.00 / 5)

That's like calling Scooter Libby a former Congressional aide. In this context, Dean is Managing Editor of Blue Hampshire.

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by: JimC @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 10:04:47 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

This is unnecessarily bristly, (4.00 / 1)

although I believe you tried to take pains to not make it so.

The first comment on this story was, to my mind, excessively brief and dismissive, which may be understandable in a post made after 11pm on a Sunday night, but the heart of it was solid:

Try to think of what this diary reads like to someone outside of the city walls of Manchester who knows nothing about this person and tv station and this endless feud.

This whole cable-TV-insider-two-faced-weasel-backstabby-ultraparochial crap is most certainly tiresome; I doubt anyone finds it more so than you.  For non-Mancunians, though, it is not only tiresome, but opaque, byzantine and of no immediately apparent concern.  The middle two paragraphs of your comment above might have been put in the original story, and profitably replaced a large chunk of the verbiage there.

And your last paragraph might have been more favorably received if it had been worded thus:

If you think we Mancunians are a bunch of ill-bred baboons, that's your prerogative, and two or three days out of seven I'd agree. But the fact that someone who lives seventy miles away isn't engaged in the ebb and flow of Manchester politics does not make it appropriate for you to post comments demeaning our very real concerns.

And it would behoove us all, even those of us most used to repeated false professions of good faith, to presume the best reasonable interpretation of any basically decent person's statements as the likeliest to be true.

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by: Tim C. @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 11:30:58 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Funny! (4.00 / 7)

Do I get a steed and escutcheon too? My friends from my teaching days in the Bronx would get a kick out of that.

If it's possible for you to see through the culture war you are, on the basis of your assumptions alone, attaching to me, then read on.

The diary is tiresome not because you and your villain live in Manchester.

It is tiresome because this is not the first time you have come on here to defame someone on personal grounds, and without links to verify.

I have no doubt in my mind that your villain is in fact a villain, and have no interest in defending him, or his media partner.

But if you want to keep hurling verbal sticks and stones at each other on personal grounds, then I suggest you do it at wherever that sort of thing is welcome.  Or start your own blog about it; it's a big internet.

I haven't been to NHInsider for years, and things may have changed since then, but I will never allow Blue Hampshire to become what Insider looked like when I first started looking at blogs.

Blue Hampshire is the place to diary JKL's policies, such as he may have them, and why they should have no place among Republicans or anyone else in Manchester.

I will not hesitate to ban users for unsourced online character attacks, even if the user belongs to my political party, and even if the character in question is not only contemptuous but also genuinely depicted of what is ascribed to him.

birch, finch, beech

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by: Dean Barker @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 17:54:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I had no bad opinion of Manchester politics (4.00 / 1)

until many of you came here and stunk up the place with:

• Intensely personal grudges that evidently have some local context - and the rest of the state doesn't care what it is.
• Intensely personal attacks to match those grudges - attacks that evidently carry over from Manchester cockfights local cable shows.
• Zero engagement in actual state policy issues.
• Contempt for the very areas of the state you just attacked - those areas that turned the state blue despite Manchester, and that take a backseat in the state party apparatus.

So yeah, I now have a bias against Manchester. I gained it from people here.

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by: elwood @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 21:08:26 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I resent that. (4.00 / 2)

As far as New Hampshire communities go, Manchester is massive.  I like Peter, and I sympathize with his being a target of personal attacks, but I'm sick of people writing that Manchester is just a political cesspool.

--
Hope 2012

@DougLindner

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by: Douglas E. Lindner @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 21:59:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Maybe what happens is (4.00 / 2)

that when someone from Manchester posts on a topic of statewide interest - you on a national issue, Kathy on marriage equality - we just think "What a good post!" and not "What a good Manchester post."

Whereas the the Manchester discussions that are personal, poisonous, and for most readers trivial here are clearly tied to the city.

(Of course, having the Mayor get involved in bar fights tends to reinforce that image.)

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by: elwood @ Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 05:46:06 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

(I don't think any of the BH regulars voted for him) (0.00 / 0)

--
Hope 2012

@DougLindner

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by: Douglas E. Lindner @ Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 11:40:15 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Manchester is not just a political cesspool. n/t (0.00 / 0)

for transparency sake ~I represent Union print shops

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by: JonnyBBad @ Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 07:38:17 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Why isn't there an Excellent Troll rating? n/t (4.00 / 2)

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by: Tim C. @ Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 08:03:37 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh Elwood... (4.00 / 1)

Haven't we been through this enough?

As has been mentioned before; less money is spent by the NH Democratic Party and campaigns per vote in Manchester than in any other area of the state. The Manchester City Democrats routinely raise more money than all ten county committees times two.

....For the rest, I will let Chris Pappas' words speak for themselves:

www.citydems.com:

ABOUT MANCHESTER DEMOCRATS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Manchester is the largest city in New Hampshire with a population of 110,000 people, and has a rich and storied history. The city was founded in 1846, and was quickly established as an industrial powerhouse, churning out thousands of miles of cloth every week and becoming the largest textile producer in the world by the late 19th century. Waves of immigrants from Canada, Ireland, Greece, Poland and other areas of Europe flooded the city in search of employment in the textile mills until the early 1900s, when economic and natural disasters precipitated their collapse. Since that time, the city and its workers have struggled to revitalize Manchester's economy, infrastructure, and neighborhoods. Today a once depressed mill town is thriving with new business and industry, public and private investment in infrastructure, and dozens of cultural and entertainment venues for its citizens. Manchester has been recast by its citizens as the economic and cultural center of New Hampshire.

Manchester has long been the heart of the Democratic Party in New Hampshire. Throughout the 20th Century, Manchester was home to many of the successful state and federal Democratic politicians including Gov. John King, Sen. John Durkin, and Congressman Norm D'Amours.

By the mid-1990s, however, Republicans had made inroads in the city, holding the office of mayor and a majority on the Aldermanic Board. But like the fortunes of the city itself, the Democratic Party in Manchester has been experiencing a renaissance. In 1999, Mayor Bob Baines defeated ten year incumbent Ray Wieczorek, a conservative Republican, and ushered in an era of Democratic dominance on the Aldermanic and School Boards. In city elections since 2001, Democrats continued to build steam in city, and now hold five citywide positions, eleven out of fourteen spots on the Aldermanic Board, as well as a healthy majority on the School Board.

Manchester has become the keystone of any Democrat's political fortunes in New Hampshire. Jeanne Shaheen was successful here during her three runs for governor, but lost Manchester in her unsuccessful Senate bid in 2002. Al Gore won Manchester narrowly in 2000, but a bigger vote would have given him New Hampshire's four electoral votes and the presidency. Bill Clinton's wins in Manchester in 1992 and 1996 propelled him to statewide wins, and similarly Hillary Clinton won the First in the Nation primary after winning Manchester in 2008. The roadmap to victory runs right through the Queen City.

Manchester is also home to numerous former State Democratic Party chairs. State Chair Ray Buckley iserved for a number of years as Manchester City Democrats chair before stepping down to be the State Party chair. Several of his predecessors also call Manchester home, including Kathy Sullivan, Joe Keefe, George Bruno, Chris Spirou, Romeo Dorval, and Bill Craig. Other Manchester Democrats have been known for their longevity of service. Dan Healy served Manchester as a state representative for 52 years until 1998. Bill Cashin was the Dean of the Aldermanic Board, serving 32 years and stepping down in 2001. Kathy Sullivan was the longest serving State Democratic Party Chair before stepping down in 2007.

The rise of the Democratic Party to majority status is due in large part to the success of the party locally in the Queen City.  In 2008, President Obama, Governor Lynch, Senator Shaheen, and Congresswoman Shea-Porter all romped to victory in Manchester.  Democrats captured two out of three state Senate seats here in the 2006 and 2008 elections, giving the party the chamber's majority.  And the Democrats have won 80% of the state representative seats in the past two elections, and now hold 28 out of the 35 members that Manchester sends to the legislature.  

By registration numbers, the party has also increased its advantage over the Republicans since 2002, when the two parties were roughly split.  Democrats now enjoy a registration edge in all twelve wards for the first time in history. In 2002, Republicans actually had the edge in five of twelve wards. Since then, however, Democrats have gained 6,558 voters. Republicans have sunk fast and are now third behind Democrats and undeclareds in eleven of twelve wards. There are now 25,044 Manchester Democrats, 19,195 Republicans, and 24,035 undeclared voters.


2012 starts today.

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by: Ray Buckley @ Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 09:21:01 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Also of note, New Hampshire is not blue "despite" Manchester (4.00 / 4)

Manchester's delegation to the state house is heavily Democratic.  Two of our three state senators are Democrats.  Jeanne Shaheen won in Manchester.  Barack Obama won in Manchester with 11 out of 12 wards.  Carol Shea-Porter won all 12 wards, as did John Lynch.

--
Hope 2012

@DougLindner

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by: Douglas E. Lindner @ Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 11:54:04 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Blech (4.00 / 8)

Mr. Brigss is attempting to poison the BH well. Don't let him do it.

The quotes Mr. Briggs has posted were e mailed using some generic e mail account to a number of Democrats a while back.  I understand they later were posted on nhinsider's discussion board. Someone is going to a lot of trouble to assemble this stuff and distribute it, not only to cause Peter a headache, but to try to destroy his career. Don't let that happen.

I am well aware of the comments that Peter made about me in the past; Peter is very passionate about his politics, has never shied away from telling people exactly what he thinks, and wears his heart on his sleeve. If anyone thinks that he is the only person in the NHDP who ever called me a hack, they are mistaken; at least in Peter's case, he was willing to say so to my face!  Mr. Briggs wants me, and some other Democrats, to turn on Peter; I'm not going to do that.

[I actually thought the comment about my past sell date was kind of funny]

I hope the rest of you will ignore this crap that Mr. Briggs is trying to peddle; it is a poisonous distraction.  



"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

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by: Kathy Sullivan 2 @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 09:55:44 AM CDT

What A Wonderful Statement (4.00 / 1)

Kathy Sullivan has great class.  Of course, we all know that and many of us have said that, but it's worth repeating.  

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by: Rep. Jim Splaine @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 18:33:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Briggs has class too (4.00 / 2)

it just happens to be low

for transparency sake ~I represent Union print shops

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by: JonnyBBad @ Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 07:39:46 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Jim! (0.00 / 0)

That was very sweet of you!




"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

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by: Kathy Sullivan 2 @ Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 08:15:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

You forget yourselves (4.00 / 4)

I would like to take this opportunity to drive home a simple fact. Your place here is at the pleasure of the masthead.

Suggestions by Dean are his very polite way of serving notice. This is done, imo, to steer tone, rather than crush content.

The strength of this forum is the diversity of the participants. Those that do harm, often called trolls, are banished.

I will be audacious and make two recommendations.
1) Tone down your bullshit
2) Consider starting a Manchester centric blog

See the thing is, ya come to this blog because it is widely read. Commenting here is a priviledge.

Please keep this in mind when you approach the keyboard.

Whack-a-mole, anyone?

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by: Jack Mitchell @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 09:58:20 AM CDT

I had the unedifying experience of perusing some (4.00 / 4)

Levasseur pronouncements and concluded that somebody's really into spreading gossip on the internet.  Gossip is, of course, the forte of individuals who aim to rule by subordinating supporters and opponents with invective.  That is, the invective is designed to discourage resistance among "supporters" who are disinclined to be similarly attacked and opponents are supposed to be impressed by the attackers ruthless disregard of fact and good manners.

Disregarding such behavior is probably not a good idea, if only because the "supporters" are likely to conclude that the strategy is working, if only marginally.  Also, the conservative goal has been to depress citizen participation and demonstrating that "politics is a dirty business" does that by convincing good people to have nothing to do with it.

Besides, bullying behavior needs to be confronted, period.  It's not just the bully's immediate target that is the victim; it's all the witnesses who fear they might be next.

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by: hannah @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 12:30:49 PM CDT

For whatever it's worth... (4.00 / 3)

Echoing Dean's sentiments, I hate personal political attacks, and hope more often we can all just agree to disagree. We're the good guys, remember?

But I'm siding more with Peter & Kathy's sentiments. I love Manchester, and would like to think this blog community would have worked harder to stop what I see as a growing negligent Republican base in Manchester. It may be a Democratic-dominated board, but for all intents and purposes the city operates like a Republican stronghold. Cut taxes, cut taxes, cut taxes, no matter the consequences on schools, roads, etc.

If this site were around in 2005, I'd like to think the we would have stopped Guinta. Then again sometimes I'm not so sure. But whatever the scenario, Manchester would be a better place now if the neglectful lack of leadership were stopped in its tracks in 2005.

I often compare this site's influence and think about Daily Kos. 4 years ago that site helped me get interested in (and yes, donate some money to) the IL-Sen race. Now, the victor of that race is our president. A few months ago I was daily encouraged on this site to help out Bud Martin, in a race I saw us having no chance of prevailing in. Yet recently, when someone on this site brings up the Manchester mayor's race - a race in which the issues are clearly on OUR side, with citizens desperately in need of a change - comments on this site basically encourage us residents to stop bothering. It's as if the state has bigger issues, and Mayor Gatsas is an inevitability.

The great Queen City needs hope again, and Blue Hampshire could help provide it. Time is running out, but it's not too late.

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by: MHT-ETD @ Mon Aug 31, 2009 at 21:02:42 PM CDT

I would love to hear more about the Manchester mayoral race. (4.00 / 1)

But it's been pretty quiet on that front for a while.

If some of our Manchester Hamsters have something to offer on that, please write some diaries.

birch, finch, beech

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by: Dean Barker @ Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 04:28:41 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Hey Schulltzie (0.00 / 0)

This is your cue.

Whack-a-mole, anyone?

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by: Jack Mitchell @ Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 06:10:10 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I see nothing.... (4.00 / 1)

for transparency sake ~I represent Union print shops

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by: JonnyBBad @ Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 09:43:42 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I will take you up on that n/t (4.00 / 2)

"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

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by: Kathy Sullivan 2 @ Tue Sep 01, 2009 at 07:23:57 AM CDT

[ Parent ]