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The Good Old Days

by: Dean Barker

Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 20:26:21 PM EDT
It's been a long, long nomination process, especially for those of us here in New Hampshire.  Frankly, I'm sick and tired of trying to be diplomatic about it.

The Democratic party has a greater structural advantage, in money, in new voter interest, in turnout, in momentum, in candidates, in policy, in the House, in the Senate, among the governorships, than they have ever had in my lifetime, and perhaps ever will.

And we are pissing it all away on a nomination race that has lost all meaning and perspective, while the Republicans, who have as their leader the most hated president in my lifetime, who have as their nominee an elderly gentleman who is wedded to the president's most unpopular decision on the one hand, and on the other is unacceptable to large parts of the GOP base, who face a veritable crisis of fundraising and Congressional retirements, -- the Republicans are laughing at us.

One of our leading candidates cannot win the nomination without becoming Tonya Harding.  Pursuing that path, she does things that are embarrassing to behold, and when she gets called out on it, turns the media spotlight off of her humiliation by opening up a raw wound on her opponent, the one who actually can (and will) win the nomination, whenever that may be in the distant future.  And then his team responds with as much surrogate stupidity as hers. And no one with any real heft, aside from a carefully worded series of statements from Nancy Pelosi, will step in to stop this slow motion train wreck that is in a very real sense hurting the Democratic party.

(Perhaps this is karma? The Senator from Illinois has had an unusually charmed electoral history.  Is this the first great endurance test for President Obama?)

Somewhere, off to the side, Iraq is boiling over again, the dollar reaches yet new depths, home values are plummeting along with consumer confidence levels, antarctic ice shelfs are falling into the ocean at even faster rates than scientists who actually believe in climate change predicted they would.  And I still can't afford to fill up my gas tank.

Adding: And what burns me up perhaps the most is that this nomination fight, over yet not over, is sucking all the oxygen out of the media - and yes, the political blogopshere - for critical  downticket races that need money and interest and enthusiasm and exposure, and need them now.

During the good old days before Iowa, we had a field of candidates who made the other team look pathetic.  Remember them with me below the fold:
Dean Barker :: The Good Old Days

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The Good Old Days | 47 comments
I keep trying to post my comment and it keeps failing, so let's see if this works. (0.00 / 0)

Interesting. It appears if your title is too long, SoapBlox just ignores your attempt to post a comment. (0.00 / 0)
Sorry for the digression, just skip this sub-thread.
[ Parent ]
"no one with any real heft...will step in to stop this slow motion train wreck..." (0.00 / 0)
Wrong.  Exactly that kind of someone just did.

If only Edwards, Biden, and the leader of the party (Al Gore;  Bill Clinton has abdicated that position in recent months) would follow Richardson's lead.  For obvious reasons, Howard Dean (the DNC Chair) and Nancy Pelosi (the Convention Chair) can't make public endorsements, but the time has come for the power players to settle this.  Thank you, Bill Richardson, for stepping up when your party and your country needed you.

Obama-Richardson 2008.

i think we will see (0.00 / 0)
edwards endorse before NC. most likely Obama, he's polling a little better in NC than Hillary.

I worked/voted for Bill Richardson. Jeanne Shaheen 08! Lynch 08! CSP 08! CDNH!
[ Parent ]
I know you're no fan of either Obama or Hillary, (0.00 / 0)
But I for one am ready for this nomination fight to be over.  Dean is right.

At this point, it'd be helpful just to see all the heavyweights pick one side to marginalize the other.

[ Parent ]
I don't want to see a floor fight either (0.00 / 0)
and if it takes the heavyweights to do that then so be it, if Gore endorses its over for Hillary, Edwards would hurt but won't kill the campaign, Gore would kill all fundraising ability.

As i said before I don't care for either, but I am behind the idea of having a nominee before June, whoever it may be.

I worked/voted for Bill Richardson. Jeanne Shaheen 08! Lynch 08! CSP 08! CDNH!

[ Parent ]
I respect that. (0.00 / 0)
And I agree with you about Gore and Edwards.  As I said before, I see Gore as the leader of the party for now, until we have a nominee.
[ Parent ]
Richardson got much more purchase from his endorsement (0.00 / 0)
than expected imo because of Carville's demeaning remarks.  Dumb move on his part, I believe.

But I'm talking about bigger fish than him or any of the other candidates.

Gore, Carter, Reid.  And while Dean must stay neutral, he could be doing more to press for quicker resolution.

Of course Bill Clinton and John Kerry also are in that number, but both are active supporters.

A chorus of Senators who either have been muted supporters or neutral could help too.

Wonder if Sununu's fired now.

[ Parent ]
When I saw them standing together (4.00 / 1)
especially doing that wave that you pictured above. All I could think was, "Now THAT is a dream ticket."  

Waking up on November 5th with no regrets.
[ Parent ]
i dunno if BR would take VP honestly (0.00 / 0)
he likes to enjoy himself in his work, and the work he would do as VP, I don't see himself enjoying the work, as much as he would enjoy being in the state department, traveling all around the world, getting things done, instead of lobbying old friends in the senate or house to vote one way on a bill the WH wants passed.

Even if the Dems get a nominee before the convention, I think they will wait to see what McCain does for a VP candidate.  

I worked/voted for Bill Richardson. Jeanne Shaheen 08! Lynch 08! CSP 08! CDNH!

[ Parent ]
In a Clinton admin, a VP Richardson would be irrelevant. In an Obama admin, I think he would be highly relevant. (0.00 / 0)
And he only has a few more years as NM Governor.  I think Obama is smart enough to know that people like Richardson know more about some things, and I think Richardson has thought of it too.

I don't know if he'd take the VP spot.  I hope he would--I want him in Washington.

[ Parent ]
I want him invovled in the admin too (4.00 / 1)
but we know BR Doug, even in an Obama admin I don't think BR would get to be the VP he wanted to be, he is very independent minded. Obama is the rockstar candidate, BR no where near that, he would be overshadowed in either administration as VP.

Besides, I would rather have the Sec. of State dealing with the North Koreans than my VP (too much of a security risk), and you know BR wants to finish that job. I think he would do more good as Sec of State than VP (But it would also be nice to get him elected President after his stint as a successful 2 term VP, since people would actually know who he is then)

I don't want him in Washington, I want him in afghanistan, iraq, north korea, iran, cuba, russia, china, pakistan, fixing the mess bush cheney and condi have created, because he's the only one that can get it done.

I worked/voted for Bill Richardson. Jeanne Shaheen 08! Lynch 08! CSP 08! CDNH!

[ Parent ]
When I say I want him in Washington, I mean I want him on the national stage. (0.00 / 0)
And yes, when I say VP I have in mind him running in 8 years.  Also, though, I think BR is a more effective presence in a small room than giving a speech.  He could be like Dick Cheney, except without the whole evil corrupt President-manipulating puppetmaster thing, and without the being rightfully hated.  Basically, Al Gore, but with more foreign policy focus.

I think a VP will have the President's ear more than a SoS.  I've read things that give me the feeling Presidents who take interest in foreign policy listen more to the people in the White House, like the VP and the National Security Adviser, than the SoS.  Also, I think Richardson could be VP and Biden could be SoS, but I don't think the other way would work as well.

Plus, who makes a better asset on the ticket for a general election?

[ Parent ]
Endorsements are Worthless (0.00 / 0)
I applaud Bill Richardson, but his endorsement didn't make a damn bit of practical difference.  Neither would Biden's.  Edwards' stamp of approval might help in North Carolina, but not elsewhere. . . . These two candidates have far more established name recognition than their endorsers.  Thus, these actions allow for a one day news story and are quickly forgotten.  It's inside baseball.

If this thing drags into May, it may be time for more forceful intervention -- a change in dynamic that forces the two candidates (and their supporters) to examine their actions through a new prism.  

That threat could only come from Vice President Al Gore (see comment below).

[ Parent ]
i think BR's endorsement did matter (4.00 / 1)
+ 1 Superdelegate for Obama

The most experienced man to ever run for President, and former Clinton Cabinet member endorses least experienced candidate, and doesn't endorse a Clinton.

I worked/voted for Bill Richardson. Jeanne Shaheen 08! Lynch 08! CSP 08! CDNH!

[ Parent ]
Superdelegate? Is that your standard for impact? (0.00 / 0)
In that case, then we should all take notice of the endorsement from the Vice Chairman of the West Virginia Democratic Party.  (Didn't see you laud THAT one. :))

This is not a criticism of Richardson, who did the right thing for the right reasons.  The bottom line:  The only unaligned Democrat with a national following is Al Gore.  All other endorsements are mere one day news stories.

[ Parent ]
Edwards and Richardson don't have followings? (0.00 / 0)
I am a member of Richardson's following.
[ Parent ]
And I Commend You For That (0.00 / 0)
They do have followings.  But I don't think that there are a lot of undecided voters or superdelegates out there saying, "Wow, Bill Richardson endorsed Obama?  Now I can finally make up my mind!"

First of all, Richardson's name recognition is considerably lower than that of either major candidate.  The people who are aware of his contributions are (a) New Mexicans, or (b) politically aware voters who have, in all likelihood, already made up their minds.  (Like you, for example.)

Second, Richardson's national following is limited, as was demonstrated during his presidential race.  This is not a reflection of his experience, nor of his contributions, both of which are exemplary.  But politics is not a meritocracy -- if it were, Richardson, Dodd, and Biden would not be also rans.

The reality:  Richardson's endorsement was a courageous act, but a one day news story.  It is over, and the dynamics of the race remain unchanged.  

[ Parent ]
His endorsement did matter (0.00 / 0)
He was the second candidate to drop out of the race to endorse, and I know endorsements ususlaly don't mean much, and Richardson has said that a million times because its true, but the fact that the only two candidates to have endorsed after dropping out that endorsed Obama does mean something.

(proud member of the Richardson following for life)

I worked/voted for Bill Richardson. Jeanne Shaheen 08! Lynch 08! CSP 08! CDNH!

[ Parent ]
Two and a half (0.00 / 0)
Kucinich publicly told his Iowa supporters to go to Obama where he didn't make the threshold.
[ Parent ]
Clearly, the rest of the world thinks it's more than a one day news cycle. (0.00 / 0)
And I think his endorsement is most significant in that it is a watershed moment for Superdelegates.  He is the biggest heavyweight who stayed out of it thus far to decide to step in.
[ Parent ]
We'll have to agree to disagree on that (0.00 / 0)
Has there been any evidence of a "watershed moment for Superdelegates"?  I have seen none -- no new commitments of any consequence, no poll shifts, no tangible changes of any other kind during the past several days. . . . If I'm missing anything, let me know.

I admire your (and sdoyle's) commitment to Bill Richardson, a good man and a fine public servant.  But you have not made your case that his endorsement has altered the dynamics of this race -- or even come close to that.

I will keep an open mind on this.

[ Parent ]
Slow moving metaphor (0.00 / 0)
Anonymous Liberal
Friday, March 07, 2008
Winning Ugly

along said...

wow. after reading numerous similar analyses, it still took your use of the word "kneecap" to bring it all into focus.

Hillary Clinton is Tonya Harding.
Barack Obama is Nancy Kerrigan.
Mark Penn is Shane Stant.
Bill Clinton is Jeff Gillooly.

Tonya won the U.S. Figure Skating Championships that she forced Kerrigan to withdraw from.

But Kerrigan came back a month later to compete in the Winter Olympics in Lillehammer. She finished... second, behind Oksana Baiul. Harding, who threatened to sue the Olympics, was allowed to compete too. She came in eighth. None of them ever skated professionally again.

11:59 PM

 

The giant finds its gait.
John McCain = Oksana Baiul? (4.00 / 2)
Me don't like those prospects.  Anyone else?

Waking up on November 5th with no regrets.
[ Parent ]
John McCain is an angry hockey player who showed up to the wrong ice rink during the Summer Olympics. (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Al Gore for President (?) (4.00 / 2)
I know, I know.  I'm an Obama supporter, and I'm certain that he would stand a better chance against John McCain than Hillary Clinton would.  But desperate times require desperate measures and this one can't be ruled out -- yet.

Don't go after me -- I'm not backing the idea of a Draft Gore movement right now.  But, if Hillary and Barack continue to shred each other in an irrevocable death spiral during the next three months, it may be our only option to salvage the cluster**** that this primary campaign has become.

Would it be undemocratic?  Yes.  But it's possible that neither candidate will be able to claim a mandate in Denver.  Besides, Gore was elected President once, and is more popular now than he was in 2000.  So that doesn't strike me as a major impediment.

Would Gore be an effective candidate?  Yes.  Since 2000, he has (a) become widely acknowledged as a prophet on issues from Iraq to global warming, (b) has picked up a Nobel Peace Prize, and (c) most important, he has acquired a more casual (less stiff) ability to relate to people.  Gore is popular across our party, and he would be potent among independent voters, too.

Could he assemble a viable campaign? In a heartbeat.  The man has always known how to raise money.  He would put himself in position to opt out of the federal spending limits overnight.  And, while his ear for campaign strategy has never been the best, am willing to bet that he would bypass Bob Shrum this time.

Would he do it?  Hell, yeah.  Don't buy this "private citizen" crap.  If the party asked him to bail it out in a year when the country was dying to elect a Democratic, he would jump first and ask questions later.

What about Hillary and Barack?  Hard to say.  But the specter of a Gore candidacy could impose some realism on this self-destructing process.  

It's an idea for the back burner.  Let's see where we are six weeks from now. . . .  

Looks like you have company (0.00 / 0)
U.S. Rep. Tim Mahoney, whose district includes much of Martin and St. Lucie counties, is hoping he won't have to attend the Democratic Party national convention in Denver in August.

If he does go, that will mean the Democrats still haven't decided a nominee for the presidential election. And if neither Sen. Hillary Clinton nor Sen. Barack Obama has clinched the nomination by August, Mahoney says we may see a brokered convention, meaning the nominee could emerge from a negotiated settlement.

"If it (the nomination process) goes into the convention, don't be surprised if someone different is at the top of the ticket," Mahoney said.

A compromise candidate could be someone such as former vice president Al Gore, Mahoney said last week during a meeting with this news organization's editorial board.

If either Clinton or Obama suggested to a deadlocked convention a ticket of Gore-Clinton or Gore-Obama, the Democratic Party would accept it, Mahoney said.



Wonder if Sununu's fired now.
[ Parent ]
Ouch (0.00 / 0)
Weird coincidence.  I've been debating a post on this for the past month.
[ Parent ]
I would not fight against this n/t (0.00 / 0)


The giant finds its gait.
[ Parent ]
Al Gore Please Save US! (4.00 / 1)
I've been on board with this idea for a long time.
[ Parent ]
Went to see the "Capitol Steps" (4.00 / 1)
here in Keene tonight... some very funny stuff.

"If super delegates decide then it could be atrocious" MP3

One of the things that struck me is that the Rep Race has been over so long I have started to forget about their candidates... oh yeah Fred Thompson, and Rudy... was it 08 he ran or 04?

Couple of other bits of humor for you Dean.

"George Bush" "Uncertain times call for uncertain leadership"

"Al Gore" reading "Bush" Plan for Global Warming
- NASA mission to the sun to turn the thermostat down
- Get everyone to chew Dentine Ice
- Texas Electric Chairs powered by Wind

If we could not laugh we'd all go insane.

But yea, I'm ready for this to be over too. Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory.

Hope > Fear

Full Metal Pantsuit n/t (0.00 / 0)


This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force.

   Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
Bravery Under Fire (0.00 / 0)
I thought I was sniping but I was only misremembering  

This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force.

   Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
How long has this thing been going on ? (0.00 / 0)
We are starting our second baseball season... Go Sox!

Hope > Fear
I say we disqualify the Marlins, the Rays, and the Tigers, and then start arguing about it again a week before the World Series. (0.00 / 0)
Who's with me?
[ Parent ]
Dean, the Tonya Harding concept is wrong... (0.00 / 0)
The Tonya Harding issue is simply a DKos point of view which is extremely skewed on Obama rhetoric. The fact is that a very strong showing in Pennsylvania for Clinton would shift the momentum for her. And also put new heat on the issue of revoting Michigan and Florida.

DKos this past month has changed its tune. It was somewhat even handed despite Kos's campaign diaries everyday. But it made a sharp turn into full bore pushing Obama on the front page. Their article about Tonya Harding was in extremely bad taste and insulting to any Democrat.

The fact is that this race can only go wrong if the Obama Supporters like DKos go ugly like they have started to lately. The issues are what matters in this race. Attempting to "force" a candidate out of the race is wrong on so many levels. People tend to condemn the Clintons tenacity and force of will as a bad thing for the party, but it is not. Only "we" as a party can make this race go ugly. With our articles, with our commentary against one or the other candidate. We need to let democracy follow its path.

Simply saying,
Wynter

I disagree strongly on most of those points (0.00 / 0)
But it's nice to have a Clinton supporter speaking here again.  It seems most from BH, with the exception of Rep. Splaine, have taken their acorns and gone to sleep for a while.  And yet, wrong equinox for that.
[ Parent ]
The Tonya Harding concept (0.00 / 0)
is from an anonymous DNC member's point of view, the type of person who will be deciding this thing if Clinton, who has virtually no chance of winning the nomination, decides to drag it out all the way to the convention with months of embarrassing, party-damaging mud-slinging in between.

When Clinton wins PA, as she will, it will only increase perceived momentum.  She will gain a net handful of delegates that will not bring her anywhere close to actual momentum. And every step of the way.

And I don't take my marching orders from Markos, or Jerome.

Wonder if Sununu's fired now.

[ Parent ]
For the good of the party. That's precious. (0.00 / 0)
Tell that to the DNC, as the Clinton Camp tears asunder all that has been done since 2004, when the party lost a second time due to wrongheaded electoral math.


The giant finds its gait.
[ Parent ]
Path to November. (0.00 / 0)
The DNC comment was pretty wrong on all counts. We need to do two things in this continually saga that is the Democratic Primary.

We need to keep the ugly prognosticating (eg. Tonya Harding) to the GOP. Simple factchecking is all we need to do for the candidates, campaigning, etc. Tearing each other down is not an option. And I truly doubt that either candidate will go the scorched earth route. They both realize there will be a lifetime of pain to be found if that happens.

Secondly, we need to keep the candidates and their issues in the media. For good or ill, these issues debated by both of the candidates will keep the pressure on McCain through to the convention. All the while, McCain will be fumbling around trying to make news for himself.

It can be a win-win primary season. We can expose democratic issues strongly to the public through honest daily debate and discussion while making McCain a very small candidate in November.

Simply saying,
Wynter

[ Parent ]
Show me (0.00 / 0)
"The DNC comment was pretty wrong on all counts."

The Clinton camp is:

-Pushing a "big state, electoral" strategy.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...
-Dismissing headway in "red states."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23...
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com...

Is it merely a coincidence that Clinton/Penn/Ickes/Clinton are pitching a general election strategy that best contours to her primary successes? Even though that flies in the face of what the party, with Howard Dean at the helm, had decided after two consecutive presidential losses and a win in 2006?

Bring your A game, yo! We are waiting.



The giant finds its gait.

[ Parent ]
"Prognosticating"? (0.00 / 0)
I do not think it means what you think it means.
[ Parent ]
Clinton has "the audacity of hopelessness" (0.00 / 0)
The Long Defeat
By DAVID BROOKS
Published: March 25, 2008
-snip
Let's take a look at what she's going to put her party through for the sake of that 5 percent chance: The Democratic Party is probably going to have to endure another three months of daily sniping. For another three months, we'll have the Carvilles likening the Obamaites to Judas and former generals accusing Clintonites of McCarthyism. For three months, we'll have the daily round of résumé padding and sulfurous conference calls. We'll have campaign aides blurting "blue dress" and only-because-he's-black references as they let slip their private contempt.

For three more months (maybe more!) the campaign will proceed along in its Verdun-like pattern. There will be a steady rifle fire of character assassination from the underlings, interrupted by the occasional firestorm of artillery when the contest touches upon race, gender or patriotism. The policy debates between the two have been long exhausted, so the only way to get the public really engaged is by poking some raw national wound.

For the sake of that 5 percent, this will be the sourest spring. About a fifth of Clinton and Obama supporters now say they wouldn't vote for the other candidate in the general election. Meanwhile, on the other side, voters get an unobstructed view of the Republican nominee. John McCain's approval ratings have soared 11 points. He is now viewed positively by 67 percent of Americans. A month ago, McCain was losing to Obama among independents by double digits in a general election matchup. Now McCain has a lead among this group.

For three more months, Clinton is likely to hurt Obama even more against McCain, without hurting him against herself. And all this is happening so she can preserve that 5 percent chance.

When you step back and think about it, she is amazing. She possesses the audacity of hopelessness.
-snip




The giant finds its gait.
[ Parent ]
Hey Wes Clark! (0.00 / 0)
Hillary was under sniper fire. Do you want to give her your CIB?

What do you make of that? Huh, Wes? Your pick for CIC just boosted her combat cred. What next? Think she can drum up a citation for a purple heart or a silver star?

I know I am stretching abit here General, but you get the point. You know how sensitive we grunts are about those "rear echelon types" posing as heroes.

You better step up your efforts with vet activists because they will flock to McSame in the face of a HRC nom.

While your at it, would you grab a few CIBs for my wife and two daughters? We drive in NH during hunting season.

The giant finds its gait.

As someone who has to perennially endure (0.00 / 0)
an endless baseball season, I don't have much sympathy for complaints about an extended electoral season.
ABC, yo! (0.00 / 0)
As much as I would love to see Obama nominated, because I have always felt he was the best suited for this cycle. There are many compelling arguements for an extended primary.

Now imagine if the race were down to Obama and:
-Biden
-Dodd
-Edwards
-Kucinich
-Richardson

Like Rep.Splaine, I think there are many pluses to our candidates making the case across 50 states. Unlike Rep.Splaine, I will openly blame Clinton/Penn/Ickes/Penn for the quagmire that this primary is slogging through.

The giant finds its gait.

[ Parent ]
I like baseball (0.00 / 0)
but I'm sick of this primary season.

On a recent program, Stephen Colbert compared Hillary to one of those horror movie monsters that keep coming and coming, even though their heads have been cut off. Hillary and her campaign are reminding me of insane people right now. They have no chance of legitimately winning, they are destroying the Democratic Party in the process. And they lie, try to cheat, threaten, cajole. They've thrown the kitchen sink at Obama, now it's the garbage disposal. Soon they'll start with the pipes. What would their government look like if this is their standard operating procedure when things don't go their way?

Also, Obama's surrogates may say dumb things from time to time, but his campaign didn't start the mudbath (which will become a bloodbath if it goes to the convention). If he failed to react at all, he'd be "weak" a la Kerry and the
swiftboating.

I'd like to change Colbert's Hillary movie image to one of those old movies with Bette Davis or Joan Crawford, where the thwarted strong woman goes insane slowly. Hillary is starting to look like one of those characters "Sunset Blvd.", anybody? I don't like her much, but I'm getting embarassed for her.

[ Parent ]
The Good Old Days | 47 comments
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