Open Thread: A Really Terrifying Possibility

Terrifying indeed (4.00 / 3)

From ABC News H/t to TPM.

In her first of three interviews with ABC News' Charles Gibson and the only interview since being picked by Sen. John McCain as his Republican vice presidential nominee, Palin categorized the Russian invasion of Georgia as "unacceptable" and warned of the threats from Islamic terrorists and a nuclear Iran.

The governor advocated for the admittance of Georgia and Ukraine into NATO.

When Gibson said if under the NATO treaty, the United States would have to go to war if Russia again invaded Georgia, Palin responded: "Perhaps so. I mean, that is the agreement when you are a NATO ally, is if another country is attacked, you're going to be expected to be called upon and help.

Palin  obviously cares more about fetuses than about children and adults. Will she mind seeing the devastation of children dying of radiation poisoning or melting off their bones in a nuclear war? Guess not.

The other scary thing is how completely lobbyists will control this country under a McCain/ Palin administration. Randy Schneumann is serving the hand that feeds him. And it's the Republic of Georgia's.

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by: jbd @ Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 17:58:32 PM CDT

She was also pretty clearly (4.00 / 2)

unfamiliar with the term "Bush doctrine" and her attempt to skirt that instead of saying, "I don't know what the Bush doctrine is," made me squirm.

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by: Alex Gallichon @ Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 18:32:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Palin is right about that one -- as are Obama and Biden (0.00 / 0)

Notice that Putin has backed off Poland and the Baltics.  Why?  Because they're NATO members.  

Georgia and Ukraine are democratic nations.  They are no longer Soviet republics.  With few exceptions, they respect human rights and basic tenets of international justice.  In this regard, they stand in sharp contrast to Russia.

Allowing Georgia and Ukraine into NATO wouldn't cause nuclear war, it would avert it.  Unfortunately, the pariah Bush Administration couldn't get Europe on board, giving Putin the green light.

Obama and Biden have led the fight on this on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to invite Ukraine and Biden to join NATO:

http://ukraine-english-news.bl...

Biden also supports other initiatives to deter Russia -- starting with taking away the 2014 Olympics from Sochi.  That would send a sharp message.

Of course, this doesn't change the fact that Palin probably doesn't even know how to spell "Ukraine".  Matt Damon was right on.  But this isn't the issue on which to attack her.

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by: Dartmouth Dem @ Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 20:28:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No, she is not. (0.00 / 0)

If Georgia were in NATO she might be.

But it isn't, and she isn't.

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by: elwood @ Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 20:37:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

C'mon, Elwood (4.00 / 1)

It's pretty obvious that I was referring to this part of the dialogue:

"The governor advocated for the admittance of Georgia and Ukraine into NATO. "

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by: Dartmouth Dem @ Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 22:12:26 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Okay, from a more complete summary (0.00 / 0)

of the interview, you're exactly right.

The first summaries I read indicated that she believed Georgia already IS in NATO - that is not the case.

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by: elwood @ Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 05:48:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

That's really not the issue. (0.00 / 0)

The reason Georgia should be in NATO is because if it were, Russia would back off for fear of war with the United States.

If anybody thought Georgia joining NATO could realistically lead to a war with Russia, nobody would be supporting that.

...except for Future Vice President/Potential President Sarah Palin, who clearly hasn't thought it through as thoroughly as a Sophomore PoliSci major who didn't need a crash course in foreign policy from people who used to run the county to get that far in 15 seconds.

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by: Douglas E. Lindner @ Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 23:15:02 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

If Georgia were in NATO (0.00 / 0)

and shelled Russian positions like it did the other week, it would commit the United States and Russia to a very awkward, very dangerous position.

In reality, the collective security aspect of NATO has outlived its usefulness. Knowledge-sharing, the potential for peacekeeping, and other military-to-military programs are worthwhile, but beyond the original intent of NATO, which does not need to exist as it does in a post-Soviet Union, post-Warsaw Pact, post-Cold War, post-bipolar world.

NATO membership should not be extended to Georgia or other irresponsible states that want to behave so belligerently. Or, NATO membership should be open to all, especially Russia, so it does not create the kind of security issue it was established to deter.

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by: Alex Gallichon @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 12:10:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

CENTCOM (4.00 / 1)

Couple of interesting articles about Gen. Petraeus, who is about to assume charge of Central Command.

First, from the New Yorker: The General's Dilemma by Steve Coll.

Second, from BBC News: No victory in Iraq, says Petraeus

The area of responsibility for CENTCOM includes some of the most challenging parts of the world, such as the entire Middle East, parts of Africa, and parts of central Asia. It includes Sudan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, and others. CENTCOM map.

Petraeus is taking over from Gen. Martin Dempsey, who has been trying to keep things together since the resignation of Adm. William Fallon. To learn more about Fallon and the things he had been up to, you might want to check out the article that some suggest led to Fallon's resignation: The Man Between War and Peace by Thomas P.M. Barnett.

Also, because Pakistan falls into CENTCOM's area of responsibility, I'll apologize to Barack Obama for criticizing him maybe too intensely during the primary. President Bush did what Obama said he might do, and what I thought too risky and fairly reckless (I still kind of think that). While things are probably worse in Pakistan now than they were back then, no really major upsets have come out of this incursion yet and the new President of Pakistan affirmed his country's commitment to the Global War on Terror.

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by: Alex Gallichon @ Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 18:27:56 PM CDT

What's this forum? (0.00 / 0)

Judy Woodruff and another journalist separately interviewing McCain and Obama in NYC? MSNBC, CNN, nowhere else?

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by: elwood @ Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 19:34:03 PM CDT

Craig Ferguson (4.00 / 1)

this one is great as well h/t to Jeffery Feldman over at dkos

If you don't vote you're a moron!

Hope > Fear

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by: Mike Hoefer @ Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 19:46:04 PM CDT

While were at it with the YouTube (4.00 / 4)

Watch Sarah vamp for time in the first 20 seconds of this bit...

Hope > Fear

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by: Mike Hoefer @ Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 20:20:02 PM CDT

Unbelievable. (0.00 / 0)

I think Jennifer Horn could've given an answer that showed more understanding.

Wonder if Sununu's fired now.

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by: Dean Barker @ Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 20:38:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

his world view (4.00 / 1)

I am not a body language expert (IANABLE?) when she says "his world view" but to me the head nod is very much a "looking for approval" sort of gesture... sort of a "His world view, right?"

Hope > Fear

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by: Mike Hoefer @ Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 21:15:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

She flashed him a (0.00 / 0)

"don't do this to me, Charlie; just accept my bulls**t answer and move on" look, imo.

Wonder if Sununu's fired now.

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by: Dean Barker @ Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 21:25:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

My God (0.00 / 0)

Staggering.  If I'm John McCain, I cancel the debate and tie a teleprompter to her wrist until November.

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by: Dartmouth Dem @ Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 22:16:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Lost in a blizzard of words. (4.00 / 3)

For those of us who didn't think Charles Gibson would do a good job, I think he kept pushing her for a yes or no answer, one that he never got.

It reminds me of when I was in college, writing pages and pages in a blue exam book--- if you didn't know the answer to the essay question, you just kept writing thinking that if you wrote for a long time or repeated the question enough the professor might think you answered the question.

Waking up on November 5th with no regrets.

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by: Kelly Nordstrom @ Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 08:39:07 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Some degree of deniability there (4.00 / 1)

Thanks for posting this, I missed the interview itself.

Never underestimate your opponent! She read the question politically, and gave the McCain camp answer. "What Bush attempted ... mistakes were made ... those terrorists ... all options on the table."

McCain couldn't have said it better himself. She was perfectly on message, and avoided endorsing the so-called Bush doctrine. It's POSSIBLE that she doesn't fully understand it, but she may, and she certainly understands the political reality.

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by: JimC @ Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:23:40 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Palin DID try 2 ban books! (4.00 / 2)

To answer Matt Damon's question, YES, she DID try to ban books.

She tried, but thankfully she failed ...

Banning books and the Bush Doctrine ... is ABC News doing its due diligence?

Support the campaign to elect NH's Young Democrats:

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by: Garth Corriveau @ Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 21:50:03 PM CDT

Thanks to the Wasilla Librarian (4.00 / 1)

Thank you to the Wasilla Librarian Mary Ellen Edmunds who stood up to Madame Mooseburger.

Palin had wanted to ban and toss books out of the library but Edmonds held firm. If a Librarian could stop Palin, we can too....  

"I'm not smart enough to run the economy."

- John McCain (r) Arizona
Interview with the Keene Sentinel, November 7, 2007

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by: TJMCNH1 @ Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 22:09:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

A: Bill Richardson, Daniel Yergin, Amory Lovins (4.00 / 1)

Q: What names immediately pop into mind as proof that John McCain is spouting more bullshit when he says of Palin: "Energy. She knows more about energy than probably anyone else in the United States of America."

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by: elwood @ Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 05:08:20 AM CDT

Wendy Gramm (4.00 / 1)

Dick Cheney

Condoleeza Rice (former Chevron exec)

Etc.

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by: JimC @ Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:00:11 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

George W. Bush (even before he was President), T. Boone Pickens, (0.00 / 0)

• Rick Perry
  
• Al Gore
  
• The 23 members--and however many staffers--of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, and all the former members
  
• The 56 members--and however many staffers--of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, and all the former members
  
• Every current and former Secretary of Energy, Commerce, State, Interior, and Transportation, not to mention every living President and Vice President, and probably White House Chief of Staff too
  
• Jack Mitchell
  
• Anybody who works for an energy company, anybody who pumps their own gas.

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by: Douglas E. Lindner @ Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 22:40:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Flickr (0.00 / 0)

Could be just me -- many things are -- but Flickr links on the home page (especially), placed by anyone except Hoefer seem to give my Dell fits. It makes everything take forever to load.  

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by: JimC @ Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 07:16:10 AM CDT

Correction (0.00 / 0)

Make that Hoefer and Dean -- no problems with the new Flickr links. ???

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by: JimC @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 06:04:19 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Kennedy's National Service Bill (4.00 / 1)

Kennedy to introduce sweeping national service bill

By Susan Milligan, Globe Staff

NEW YORK -- Senator Edward M. Kennedy, sidelined from the Senate as he undergoes treatment for a malignant brain tumor, plans to introduce a sweeping new national service bill tomorrow to recruit 175,000 Americans of all ages to do service work in health, education, environmental protection and anti-poverty programs, with their work partly subsidized by the federal government.

The plan, meant to build on national service initiatives that began under former President Kennedy and expanded under former Presidents George H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton, would provide an estimated $5 billion over five years to encourage citizens from kindergarteners to retirees to get involved in community organizations -- including faith-based groups -- on a series of programs targeted at national problems.
...
But the new plan, staffers said on condition of anonymity, would be aimed at people of all ages. While many volunteer programs now attract young college graduates willing to work for low salaries before settling into better-paid job, the Kennedy-Hatch plan would give older Baby Boomers an opportunity to take time off for community service, perhaps transitioning into a second career.

Retired people generally not sought out by community service organizations would be encouraged to get involved and eligible for an "Encore Fellowship'' to extend their tenures beyond one year. Schoolchildren, meanwhile, would be taught to incorporate a "lifetime of service'' into their lives, starting with smaller efforts such as food drives, aides said.
...

The giant finds its gait.

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by: Jack Mitchell @ Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 09:37:04 AM CDT

OMG (0.00 / 0)

I recommend clicking that link and reading the comments underneath it, lest anyone underestimate the, um, "depth of emotion" the other side displays.

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by: JimC @ Sat Sep 13, 2008 at 06:02:05 AM CDT

[ Parent ]