It's Your Fault I Can't Stop Lying

This is a remarkable statement (4.00 / 2)

If this environment - having his opponents NOT meet with him face to face twice a week - leaves him so unable to take control of his own campaign, what sort of Presidency can we expect?

"The war is frankly regrettable. I just wish Mr. Putin had agreed to my proposal to meet face-to-face every Tuesday and Friday - then we might have avoided it."

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by: elwood @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 05:47:14 AM CDT

McCain must think he's still behind if he's so desperate for these joint appearances. (4.00 / 1)

I know the Conventional Wisdom is that he's good at such events, but I think recent history has shown he's not so much with the details (is knowing what Sunni and Shia are and which Iran and al Qaeda are a detail), while Obama is.

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by: Douglas E. Lindner @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 07:09:22 AM CDT

Everything is somebody else's fault/responsibility. (4.00 / 2)

That's the central tenet of authoritarianism--an elaborate structure to evade personal responsibility.

I know they talk about personal responsibility, but what they mean is the inevitable bad consequences which follow when someone does his/her own thing.

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by: hannah @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 11:58:02 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

McCain's a regular Flip (flop) Wilson... (0.00 / 0)

"The Devil made me do it"

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by: cmnh @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 17:33:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Say it yourself, and say it directly. (0.00 / 0)

The McCain campaign loves to hit Obama on things rather subtly and generally with respect to accusations nobody would ever make outright, because they would sound as ridiculous as they are.  The women of The View did a better job with this than anybody else has so far, but here's what needs to be done.

Show the clip of Obama's lipstick on a pig remarks.  Explain that this is not a question of implication, but simply a question of clarifying what one believes is and is not fact.  "Senator McCain, YES OR NO, do you believe that Senator Obama called Governor Palin a pig?" Insist that a no is disingenuous because he approved an ad implying it, and anything that isn't a "yes" or "no" answer is dodging the question and that there are only two possible answers as to what one thinks the fact is.

Obama should press him on this in the debates.  When he says something he knows isn't true, or implies someone is less patriotic, or some other such nonsense, remind him that he knows it's not true, but he's saying it anyway.  He's saying it right into the camera.  Forty million Americans are looking back at him, and he's lying to their faces.

And the same thing on so many other issues.

Though Sorkin left after the fourth season, let us take a cue from Matt Santos' WMUR ad:

Good evening. I'm running for President and if you don't know know who I am, I wouldn't be surprised. I've been shut out of tomorrow night's debate for suggesting that it actually be a debate and this is the only ad I can afford. I got in this to improve a broken school system, to fix entitlement because they're going bankrupt, to expand health coverage because it will save money if fewer people in up in emergency rooms. What I found is that Presidential campaigns aren't about these things. They're about clawing your opponents' eyes out as long as you don't get tagged for it. So how about this: I will never say anything about my opponents or anything about anything without saying it myself, right into the camera. You might not get to hear much of me but when you do, you'll know I stand by it. I'm Matt Santos and you better believe I approve this ad.

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by: Douglas E. Lindner @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 07:21:23 AM CDT

priceless (4.00 / 3)

"Now look what you kids made me do!"

Netroots Outreach Director for the Carol Shea-Porter campaign

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by: susanthe @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 11:55:29 AM CDT

The only thing McCain has going for him is intimidation. (4.00 / 4)

He can't intimidate someone, if he can't get close to him.

It seems that narcissists, who have no empathy for other people, nevertheless have an uncanny ability to ferret out a person's weak/soft points--to call into question what their opponent considers to be virtues or strengths.

So, for example, if Obama is courteous and respectful and prides himself on those virtues, McCain will be rude in order to tempt him to violate his own standards.  And, if his target is not rude in return, he will be characterized as weak.

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by: hannah @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 12:10:10 PM CDT

Let's see if this works. (0.00 / 0)

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by: hannah @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 13:33:25 PM CDT

Fence sitting? (0.00 / 0)

Is it true that Lynch showed up at Loudon with McCain?  

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by: xteeth @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 16:43:52 PM CDT

It's not fence sitting (4.00 / 1)

Lynch endorsed Obama against McCain.

He presumably believes that he is playing the gracious host in showing up at Loudon with McCain and Sununu.

I know Democrats who strongly disagree.

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by: elwood @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 16:48:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

He spoke at Obama's rally in Manchester on Saturday, and has endorsed Obama. (4.00 / 2)

I don't begrudge him playing the host; our state needs a good relationship with the next White House no matter who's in it.

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by: Douglas E. Lindner @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 16:54:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

McCain is not an option (n/t) (0.00 / 0)

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by: jbd @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 17:56:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No, but let's not kid ourselves, he is a possibility. (0.00 / 0)

Which is why we can't afford to sit on our collective behind for the next 50 days.

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by: Douglas E. Lindner @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 18:21:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

There you go again (4.00 / 2)

John Lynch typically goes to the races, as have most governors of New Hampshire. The races at NHMS are pretty important to the NH economy:

Each NASCAR race weekend pumps about $80 million into the state's economy, according to Doug Blais, a professor of sports management at Southern New Hampshire University.

http://www.snhu.edu/7594.asp

And, each year the track works with the Governor, whomever the governor may be, on a major charity event around the July race.  Saying he showed up "with McCain" would be like saying Russ Feingold showed up with McCain at an event in Washington because they happened to be on the senate floor together for a vote. If you can explain to me why Governor Lynch should snub an event that is important to the economy of our state just because McCain shows up, I'd like to hear it, and keep in mind that NHMS was sold this year to Bruton Smith, who has been looking for a second race date for his track in Las Vegas, and for a date for his facility in Kentucky.  Losing one of those two race dates would hurt, so I am glad Gov. Lynch was showing his support. It is called doing his job.

So, before you needlessly go off on Governor Lynch, read this:  

From Sept., 2005, ESPN.com:  Among the celebrities on hand Sunday were New Hampshire Gov. John Lynch and U.S. Sen. John Kerry.   http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/...

If you had been in Manchester on Saturday for the Obama event, you would have seen Governor Lynch firing the crowd up for Senator Obama.  

"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt   [I'm an advisor to the NHDP Coordinated Campaign]

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by: Kathy Sullivan 2 @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 17:24:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Also, Lynch (4.00 / 1)

gave a very, very supportive welcome to Barack when Oprah came to Manchester.  

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by: jbd @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 17:55:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

xteeth, this is trollish as follows: (0.00 / 0)

The diary is about McCain's claim that the campaign has gone negative because Obama refused to drop his campaign and instead run several-a-week town halls with McCain.

John Lynch has nothing at all to do with the diary.

"Hijacking" a diary by starting a discussion on a largely unrelated topic is a no-no.

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by: elwood @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 17:59:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Boorish behavior (4.00 / 1)

I am a Liberal Democrat, work my ass off, have a booth, a float and a lot of stuff way beyond being a screen beret blogger. If you want to know about me ask Susanthe or Carol or Lenore, in short, do your homework. One of the things that used to be great about being a Democrat was willingness to discuss stuff pretty much at random. I'm sorry if you would rather have a Lynch discussion some other place. I was reading this site and received an email reporting this coincident event. I was curious as there have been other incidents of this kind as you are well aware. Our people aren't perfect in my opinion, or even consistent, in case you haven't noticed. I wanted to find someone who was there who could actually report what went on. That's hard for me as I know no NASCAR dads. Sorry if that is too simple. The no-no here occurs over and over. Why would you want to put your foot on the neck of a supporter? Is this the only web site in the world where you run out of space for discussions? You can see what happens when others don't want to discuss a subject. They start a new thread and just go on. Having you and Kathy riding heard on a discussion is the kind of thing that ends up like Bush and McCain trying to control who shows up at their rallies. Next there will be arguments about lipstick and twenty year old community organizing.  

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by: xteeth @ Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 06:13:53 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

On this we can agree (0.00 / 0)

Why would you want to put your foot on the neck of a supporter? Is this the only web site in the world where you run out of space for discussions? You can see what happens when others don't want to discuss a subject. They start a new thread and just go on. Having you and Kathy riding heard on a discussion is the kind of thing that ends up like Bush and McCain trying to control who shows up at their rallies.

I am not a liberal, but

Blog On!


The giant finds its gait.

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by: Jack Mitchell @ Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 07:27:01 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Reagan got your tounge? (0.00 / 0)

"Liberal" is not a dirty word, and "conservative" is no less partisan--and even more extreme.

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by: Douglas E. Lindner @ Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:46:14 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

R U Cookin'? (0.00 / 0)

Stating that I am not something, does not make me against something. I am, however, less "for" it.

I totally agree with Kathy that Lynch's motives where driven by his office. That is not to say, I agree with efforts to "herd." I don't agree with xteeth. Rarely do I, but the person has a right to question. Xteeth is not a concern troll.

Oh, btw, conservatives are NOT more extreme. Though, I find them slightly more intolerable.

Come Nov. 5th, I'll happily debate for the soul of the "progressive" movement. Now, we must win.

Now I'm herding. Drats!

The giant finds its gait.

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by: Jack Mitchell @ Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 11:07:59 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Conservatism in this country is code for "right wing" (0.00 / 0)

Liberal is code for "center-left"

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by: Douglas E. Lindner @ Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 11:14:00 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

You're just another jerk (4.00 / 1)

who thinks the rules don't apply to him.

If you want to talk about a different subject, find an open thread or start your own diary. Hijacking isn't allowed.  

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by: elwood @ Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 07:42:00 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks (0.00 / 0)

That is the even handed arbitration that we have come to expect - now I'm just another jerk. You are the one that calls this hijacking. Instead of the "defensive" responses listed here I would respond this way. ---- I (your name or something here) was at the race and there was no implied or even acknowledged tie between Lynch and McCain. If you have heard differently, that is not correct. It was a NH event and the governor goes to those to encourage NH stuff which is his duty, interest and probably delight. It is a huge thing and worth encouraging on many levels. I don't think any endorsement was intended much less fence sitting. ---------- Instead I get the troll comment and the rest. That is the source of foot on neck comment. This is not the first time. I actually ask questions because I want answers and comments not because of some Machivellian strategy. There is a lot of that around and perhaps your assumptions and time limits put limits upon your respsonses and inclines you to respond in this way. Sad state if true.

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by: xteeth @ Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 09:16:45 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

No arbitration involved (0.00 / 0)

The ref blew the whistle. You were out of bounds.

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by: elwood @ Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 09:33:13 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

What game was being played and by whom? (0.00 / 0)

I just considered going through this or some other thread and listing the subject matter. I haven't got the inclination and that would be off topic even further. If you notice below, this one wanders off into Palin and tanning beds and yet there seems to be no hijacking claim nor classification of jerkdom. Could that be because that is part of where you would like this thread to go? It's certainly not germain to McCain's can't help lying stuff that started it out. You're probably correct about my thoughts not being in line with the title. Do you not see a difference between "fence sitting?" and fence sitting. The answer to the first is evidently not in your opinion, the second is an assertion I didn't make but has evidently stirred some paranoia. No one else has ever had trouble understanding my making of assertions so please let me make them before attacking them. That stuff is in your head not mine.

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by: xteeth @ Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 11:45:40 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Excuse me? (0.00 / 0)

You tried to make a point ("fence sitting"). I responded with some facts as well as my opinion, and also invited some further discussion by asking you to explain why you thought the Governor should snub the event just because McCain showed up.  Your response that Elwood and I are "riding heard [sic]" on the discussion is pretty defensive - where is the problem in my disagreeing with you and his pointing out the discussion was off topic?  Give me a break. If you didn't want an answer to your question, "is it true that Lynch showed up with McCain", then why did you ask it?      

And xteeth, I was at the race.  Please don't accuse me of attending a McCain rally!  It really is more of a Democratic sport - the drivers only make left turns....  

"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt   [I'm an advisor to the NHDP Coordinated Campaign]

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by: Kathy Sullivan 2 @ Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 07:56:18 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Xteeth, Here is a report on race (0.00 / 0)

From someone other than me, since you seemed to take offense at my responding to you! This is from an e mail sent to the yahoo town chairs group:

Just to add some perspective from yesterday; my husband is a democrat who also is a licensed firearms dealer (we disagree about some issues) and while
yesterday was only the 2nd time he attended a race, he would be there more frequently if he had the means and opportunity.. He fits in many
ways that demographic that a lot of us (including myself) tend to joke about/look down on and wonder why the hell we can't get their vote.  We have his vote, he will never vote Republican in his life time but he is not as "liberal" or progressive as probably the majority on thi
list.  I think there are some good points being made in this discussion, but I want to mention that after asking him (he got in very late last night) about his impression of the Lynch McCain interaction, he was adamant
that from his perspective in the audience, Lynch was not there with McCain and only sharing the stage briefly with a number of other people related to the ceremonies of the race and if anything probably brought in some votes just by being there.

Energy and persistence conquer all things.

Benjamin Franklin

I'm a strategist for the NH Coordinated Campaign

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by: Kathy Sullivan @ Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 20:06:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Respond to me, not what is in your head. Look for question marks. (0.00 / 0)

How nice and civil. Just what I wanted. You do know, I hope, that the order of posting of responses has to do with that item to which you responding as indicated by the set back. So, everything above your post is not a response necessarily to your post. It could have come anytime.

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by: xteeth @ Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 07:04:27 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

The sun sets in the west. n/t (0.00 / 0)

"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt   [I'm an advisor to the NHDP Coordinated Campaign]

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by: Kathy Sullivan 2 @ Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 07:18:46 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

How does an Alaska Governor have such Bronzed Skin. (0.00 / 0)

How does an Alaskan Governor have bronzed skin.

A. A Tanning Bed in the Governors Mansion.

Yes, The Dowager Empress of Juneau AKA Sarah Palin has installed a tanning bed (was this hers or put in with State $$$)  so she could have  that special look, like George Hamilton.

(P.S. The McCain Camp know realizes the can of worms troopergate have opened and have stated that Sarah won't be interviewed about.)


VALOR, n.  A soldierly compound of vanity, duty and the gambler's


hope.

- Ambrose Bierce from "The Devil's Dictionary"

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by: TJMCNH1 @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 20:08:40 PM CDT

I'll say it again (4.00 / 2)

The candidate for president is McCain, not Palin.  Unless she misused state funds to buy the tanning bed, what's the problem with her buying one? I think criticizing McCain having a hobby of buying oriental carpets is fair, because he and his campaign try to push the elitist theme about Obama, but Palin never was out there pushing skin cancer prevention.  Hopefully, Biden and Palin won't be debating the use of tanning beds and hair plugs.

Lying about troopergate?  Fair game.  Fibbing about earmarks? No problem.  Tanning bed?  Not my cup of tea, but with the cultural pressures women are under with respect to appearance (especially women in the public eye), I'll give her a pass on this one, and I would repsectfully suggest that we file this under irrelevant. Unless, as  I said, there was a misuse of state funds, and her campaign is saying she paid for it.  

Energy and persistence conquer all things.

Benjamin Franklin

I'm a strategist for the NH Coordinated Campaign

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by: Kathy Sullivan @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 21:03:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes, PLEASE let's not have a debate (0.00 / 0)

about whether Palin's tan or Joe's hair plugs are more vain.

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by: elwood @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 21:39:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Using a tanning bed isn't the problem. (4.00 / 1)

But Regular Small Town Authentic Hockey People don't have their own tanning bed in their home.

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by: Douglas E. Lindner @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 21:44:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Inproprieties (0.00 / 0)

It may seem that a thing like a Tanning Bed may seem trivial and possibly irrelevant or it the trivial may prove more than so.

How does one know if it is or not. Answer, Find out! Chances are you may just be surprised or not so surprised depending on your view.

Boy would I like to spend an hour tanning my Irish American Skin when my wife and I are contemplating trying to pay for a hospital bill at Concord Hospital I had in May and yes I have no Health Insurance cause I can't afford it.

When you are working poor a tanning bed is a luxury. elitist so is a Hummer, Escalade, V-12 Truck or anything bigger then the mini-van that is your families only car.

Those of you who are current or former members of the New Hampshire Democratic Party please take note, there thousands of voters out here like me who are frustrated that we can't get anywhere.  THere would be thousands of people in NH alone that would vote Democratic but feel still that there votes and opinions don't count.  Don't be so cavalier with any persons opinion.  Opinions like votes count.  And we need every single one.

VALOR, n.  A soldierly compound of vanity, duty and the gambler's


hope.

- Ambrose Bierce from "The Devil's Dictionary"

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by: TJMCNH1 @ Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 21:49:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Agreed (0.00 / 0)

It's not an issue, although this woman looks weirder and wierder every day.

Of course, the Republicans thought that John Edwards' haircut was a big deal, and that cost a lot less than the ~35k one spends to purchase and install a tanning bed!

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by: Dartmouth Dem @ Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 00:01:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

It shouldn't be an issue, but it is. (4.00 / 1)

It was the McCain-Palin campaign that decided meaningless words and phrases like "Elitist", "Authentic", "Small Town Values", "Celebrity", etc.

If they want to play that game, we have to also.  You can't be above the fray when you're one side of a fight.  McCain and Palin are out of touch.  Most world leaders are--but we didn't start this crap.

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by: Douglas E. Lindner @ Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:56:00 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

*decided to use those meaningless things against their opponents (0.00 / 0)

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by: Douglas E. Lindner @ Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:56:45 AM CDT

[ Parent ]