When did Bruce Keough become governor?

well that explains everything (4.00 / 1)

Do you have any actual light to shed on this fairly complex issue?

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by: kite @ Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 20:42:28 PM CDT

silk-stocking swells (4.00 / 2)

Is class warfare at the basis of your hatred Peter? Many many folks among the unemployed would happily take a job with benefits at the rate equated with the post furlough offer. I am not saying our brothers and sisters should have voted for the contract,or that it was fairly negotiated because I am not privvy to that,(neither are you) but the way it came down publicly, they may look like they voted in favor of layoffs of some of their members rather than taking furloughs. Furloughs are going on everywhere, and layoffs continue. In this environment, holding the line will be perceived as toughness, and watching the peoples' money. Time will tell. If I am wrong, so be it. You lump everyone who may be successful in a hated group of oppressors. Nice image. Not true though. There are winners and losers, and those in between. I hate your use of stereotypes, because then the other side can stereotype you...and neither side will be right.

"Poetry is not an expression of the party line. It's that time of night, lying in bed, thinking what you really think, making the private world public, that's what the poet does." Allen Ginsberg

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by: JonnyBBad @ Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 21:05:24 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I refuse to be a knee-jerk apologist (0.00 / 0)

Sadly, for some of you, having a "D" after one's name seems to be sufficient.

The governor has not bargained in good faith. I'm sorry if that offends you, whoever you may be, but that's how I see it.

America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand. -Harry Truman

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by: Peter Sullivan @ Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 21:26:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Time for a challenger (0.00 / 0)

I agree I would love to see another option on the Democratic side.  This all could have been avoided if the expanded gambling issue were not tossed away for study.  

And really, that fact that he also turned his back on seriously ill patients even adds to it.  

Someone please run... haha

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by: dlemire @ Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 23:56:01 PM CDT

So Far, the Only Candidate Is... (0.00 / 0)

Jack Kimball, so far as I know.
Lynch hasn't announced.
There is no Democratic candidate for governor.

No'm Sayn?

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by: BurtCohen @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 06:27:12 AM CDT

Jack Kimball is a joke (0.00 / 0)

While I was working for the NH For Healthcare/SEIU, which I had done for 2 years up until last month, he was so upset at the fact that we counter-rallied at their anti-healthcare protest that he hit one of our staff over the head with a sign because they were in the way of a picture.

He then commenced to brag about it in a blog at his Granite State Patriots website.  I tried to find the article to link to, but he sharply deleted his blog archives as he launched his campaign website I see.

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by: dlemire @ Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 00:37:37 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Correction (0.00 / 0)

In his blog he called it a "bump"

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by: dlemire @ Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 00:38:24 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

PCTD (0.00 / 0)

Peter...the way you are willing to aim your vehicle at a potential political brick wall, one hung with great fairness and equality banners, and then put the pedal to the metal, you don't care who knows it...you wear your heart on your sleeve. You are a political crash test dummy.

"Poetry is not an expression of the party line. It's that time of night, lying in bed, thinking what you really think, making the private world public, that's what the poet does." Allen Ginsberg

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by: JonnyBBad @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 06:43:44 AM CDT

please enlighten (4.00 / 1)

Don't care if you apologize, not even asking for evidence, just examples of what bad faith you're talking about.

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by: kite @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 07:44:19 AM CDT

from the SEA p.o.v. (4.00 / 1)

Outside independent contractors do a lot of the State's work, they are certain, at a huge cost to NH taxpayers, instead of having State workers do it at a lower cost. I've never seen the numbers, but it would be interesting to see the costs all in, bennies included. Perhaps the idea of bringing work back in, 'loving hands at home' is the term, would make sense. But contract workers costs end when the project ends, so any 'overpay' has a limit to the project, while a fulltime employee with benefits is a 'permanent' cost. If that work can be theoretically cheaper done by a State employee, it raises the question of what were they doing before, and what substitution effect there in cost shifting ?

"Poetry is not an expression of the party line. It's that time of night, lying in bed, thinking what you really think, making the private world public, that's what the poet does." Allen Ginsberg

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by: JonnyBBad @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 08:39:19 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

"loving hands at home" (0.00 / 0)

also implies that it is better to protect your trained employees, even if over the short run bringing work back 'in house'(taken back from consultants)causes inefficiencies...because certain jobs fit certain consultants or 'hired guns'. There is nothing wrong with getting outside help for one time special projects, but defining those costs and comparing them with ramping up internally, should be regularly looked at and assessed for benefits beyond the purely the monetary.

The value of reducing outside consultants during a downtown can be seen in a number of tangential positives. Sometimes you find out that employees have skill they are not using, or are willing to learn new ones to keep their employment.
An esprit de corps grows from relying on 'family' when the chips are down. You can develop a more loyal and more highly skilled crew over time, and come out of the recession with  a more solid work unit than before.

Since New Hampshire's Procurement system relies only on 'low bid', we should look at changing the structure to a value based purchasing system. There will be more about this as Bill are introduced in the coming Session.  

"Poetry is not an expression of the party line. It's that time of night, lying in bed, thinking what you really think, making the private world public, that's what the poet does." Allen Ginsberg

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by: JonnyBBad @ Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 07:53:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Prediction (0.00 / 0)

Lynch wins.

Good thing Shaheen got UI extended. Though NH UI doesn't pay crap. I have no idea why you guys live up there. Seems like a clear case of "cake and eating it too" syndrome.

Political breakdown: If the SEA doesn't get ready to strike, then they loose. In a Union, it's "united we stand, divided we fall", right?

Ya can't divide off a chunk of your membership with a pink slip and still use high fallutin' rhetoric. To exclaim, "We are united! Except for them." just doesn't wash.

Oh, and the layoffs will not be blamed on Lynch. It will be blamed on SEA membership invoking seniority priviledges.

Strike or syfph.

Yep! Lynch wins.

www.KusterforCongress.com  

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by: Jack Mitchell @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:26:21 AM CDT

John Lynch Has Done Good Things (0.00 / 0)

This was a toughy for everyone involved -- the employees during their negotiations, then voting on whether to approve or disapprove; the Legislature, which approved a budget with an expectation of $25 million off of payroll; the Governor, and being against a wall on balancing the budget; and the taxpayers, of course, who are struggling with so many financial difficulties in 2009.  

Governor John Lynch has done many good things.  No, he wasn't my first choice in the 2004 September Democratic primary -- Paul McEachern would have made an excellent Governor too.  But John Lynch does the job with balance, and I've voted for him ever since November, 2004, without hesitation.    

I think primary contests usually make our eventual nominees even stronger, and would in the Governor's race, so I wouldn't discourage that.  It gives Democrats, in this case, a reason to come out and be excited.  I don't want to see all the "action" on the Republican side.  

The day after the September, 2010 primary, there will be headlines and news features about whomever wins the Republican nominations for Congress, U.S. Senate, and Governor.  

We should share in those headlines, but it's possible that three of our four major office contenders will be in the stories about the election as "waiting in the wings," but won't get the headlines.  On an off-year election, that could hurt a bit.  

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by: Rep. Jim Splaine @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 12:12:27 PM CDT

He's also done some bad things (0.00 / 0)

Like the renomination of Ayotte!

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by: Putney Swope @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 17:33:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes he has (0.00 / 0)

I will never deny that Lynch has done great things, but he has also taken several very Conservative actions recently.  

That aside, some of us would still like to see more progressive measures passed, and I for one am sad that our own Democratic Governor is one of the biggest roadblocks of that.

When will we say enough with his moderate ways?

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by: dlemire @ Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 00:44:20 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

The people who do not want to be regulated--to give back (0.00 / 0)

the equivalent of whatever they take--have figured out that there's more than one way to skin the cat. If the state doesn't have the money, it can't hire the people to regulate and equalize the relationship between those who give and take.  So, they argue that nobody should be taxed.
You might think that the proponents of "law and order" would be motivated to insure that the public's regulatory agencies are well-staffed.  Not so.  The proponents of "law and order" are primarily motivated by a desire to use the law to make their lives as orderly and uncomplicated as possible.  Other people's claims on the assets they accumulate for themselves are a disorderly interruption they can definitely do without.
So, restricting public revenues isn't just a mechanism for keeping what they have; its primary objective is to minimize public interference with private enterprise.  Basically, if the foundation of society is give and take, it's an anti-social strategy.

How is it possible for other-directed individuals to be anti-social?  That's a conundrum.  I think it's resolved by the observed reality that, very often, the commitment to moral/principles is really just lip-service.  Example: Christians who implement none of the teachings of Jesus in their daily lives.  Apparently "other-directed" individuals are actually self-centered and the only outside direction they follow is whatever satisfies their selfish instincts.

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by: hannah @ Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 12:29:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

a blast from the past, when Peter Sullivan's wife's job wasn't at stake. (2.67 / 3)

Riddle me this, Batman (0.00 / 0)
What is your plan for balancing the budget? An 8% tax increase during a severe recession will crush homeowners and commercial property owners.
The furlough proposal is a reasonable alternative to layoffs. If you are going to intimate that supporting furloughs makes one a
"bad Democrat", then you are going to have to point a finger at Ed Rendell, Antonio Villaraigosa, Cory Booker, and John Hickenlooper, among others.

America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand. -Harry Truman

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by: Peter Sullivan @ Tue Apr 07, 2009 at 23:31:23 PM EDT  

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by: measurestaken @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 12:27:49 PM CDT

Mmm Mmm Mmm Mmm (4.00 / 2)

www.KusterforCongress.com  

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by: Jack Mitchell @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 12:44:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks, I needed to hear this song... (4.00 / 2)

for reasons unrelated to this topic.

---

by: Putney Swope @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 19:10:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Superman never made any money, saving the world from Soloman Grundy (4.00 / 1)

"But, in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." Si se puede. Yes we can.  

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by: Paul Twomey @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 19:44:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I just realized what the Solomon Grundy rhyme (0.00 / 0)

reminds me of.

Solomon Grundy,
Born on Monday...

Miniver Cheevy,
Child of scorn...

---

by: elwood @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 20:14:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ah, an anonymous hit and run post (0.00 / 0)

FYI, my wife and I had many discussions about this issue over the last month or so. We actually disagreed on the vote, where I supported taking the deal as the best bad alternative and Katya generally supporting the SEA's position.

My problem is with the governor's attitude. He seems oblivious to the impact that his actions are going to have on the workers being laid off. When a plant closes in Gorham, he's on the scene with a furrowed brow and a boatload of compassion. When it's public employees, who are easy to caricature, he puts on the tough guy act.

And at risk of sending Bresler into orbit again, why doesn't John Lynch decline his salary? Why doesn't he cut the salary of department heads? Why doesn't he cut the salaries of senior executive and legislative branch political appointees? While this wouldn't close the gap, it would, at least, show some good faith.

America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand. -Harry Truman

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by: Peter Sullivan @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 13:03:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

psuedononymous, actually (0.00 / 0)

It's not like I change my screen name all the time and I guess I don't see psuedononymousness as a bad thing. And any time I've disagreed with you - which now I actually don't - you've gone for touchy responses. Oh, well...

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by: measurestaken @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 13:15:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yo, psuedowhateveryacallit (0.00 / 0)

The practice you employ is widely accepted here. elwood is a contributing psuedo....bleh.

www.KusterforCongress.com  

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by: Jack Mitchell @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 13:20:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No hit and run (0.00 / 0)

I've seen the handle before, and I expect to see it again.

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by: JimC @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 13:55:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Peter saw me at 6:30, my head intact n/t (4.00 / 1)

"Poetry is not an expression of the party line. It's that time of night, lying in bed, thinking what you really think, making the private world public, that's what the poet does." Allen Ginsberg

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by: JonnyBBad @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 19:26:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

More to the point, (0.00 / 0)

why don't we get rid of percentage wage increases which, over time, inevitably increase the discrepancy between the workers and management?  Percentages are fundamentally unfair, even though they appear equitable.  Every recipient getting 3% or 5% or whatever promotes inequality over time.

As a matter of fact, time is at the core of economic fallacies, as well as inequities.  For some reason, probably complexity that even computers can't resolve, economic analysis always represents a fixed moment in time, rather than developments over time.  So, for example, that an annual 7% increase results in a doubling in ten years, while a 10% increase results in a doubling in seven years, tends to be overlooked, even though this practice obviously accounts for the apparent increase in the cost of everything and no increase in real value.

If the monetary measure of value is set to increase automatically, it doesn't make sense to try to increase value by decreasing the measure.  If inches were to get longer every year, making dimensional lumber smaller would only exacerbate the problem that 2 x 4s don't provide the necessary structural support.  It's bad enough that 2 x 4s no longer measure 2" by 4".    

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by: hannah @ Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 13:04:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

And here's the link. (0.00 / 0)

Words coming back to haunt.

That troll rating abuse is a bannable offense, Mr. Sullivan.

---

by: elwood @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 18:10:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Irrelevant attacks are trolling, Mr. Elwood (0.00 / 0)

America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand. -Harry Truman

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by: Peter Sullivan @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 20:31:42 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

When playing your own post back verbatim (0.00 / 0)

counts as an attack in your mind, you've got problems.

One more abuse of the ratings and I'll recommend banning.

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by: elwood @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 20:42:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

well said (0.00 / 0)

C'mon Peter, defending Guinta on furloughs and condemning Lynch? you're better than that.  

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by: measurestaken @ Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 09:57:51 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Did you read my freaking posts? (0.00 / 0)

I said that I would have voted to accept the furloughs as the best bad alternative.

However, I also know that there is some long simmering tension between folks at HHS and the corner office. These issues predate the current problem, and likely contributed to both sides digging in their heels at the wrong time.

There's also a lot of anger with some members of the gubernatorial staff, particularly with Colin Manning. Colin's a journalist/flack by training, not a labor lawyer, arbitrator, or HR person. he should never have been allowed to be the point man in the negotiating process. When the governor allowed a public relations guy to take such an active role in the bargaining process, he let it turn into a game of posturing for the press. That might make for good politics but it makes for bad policies.

The jist is that if Gov. Lynch and his staff had developed a less antagonistic relationship with the SEA, the union's rank and file might have been far more willing to agree to a furlough proposal.

America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand. -Harry Truman

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by: Peter Sullivan @ Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 10:14:41 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

RE:Wrong Manning (4.00 / 3)

Peter,
Colin Manning was not the "point" person in negotiations...that would be Thomas Manning. Maybe part of the problem with the vote was the misinformation put out into the ether by angry/concerned parties.
Just my two cents.

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by: mrollo @ Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 13:43:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks Mike (0.00 / 0)

Kathy cleared that up earlier. I was basing this assumption on a Kevin Landrigan (I believe) column a while back that had the names mixed up. Apologies for the confusion.

America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand. -Harry Truman

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by: Peter Sullivan @ Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 18:26:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes. (0.00 / 0)

Found that out earlier - you beat me to it.

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by: Dean Barker @ Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 18:37:39 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh, grow up (0.00 / 0)

America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand. -Harry Truman

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by: Peter Sullivan @ Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 10:15:47 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

You forgot to add - (4.00 / 1)

A governor whose refusal to sign  a letter supporting health care reform is being used by the Senate Republicans

Don Stewart, Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell's communications director.

"I'll see your five, and raise you several Democratic governors," wrote Mr. Stewart.

A governor who reappointed an Attorney General who was already being mentioned as a possible Republican candidate for higher office.  

A governor who had to bring in workers from other agencies just to staff the understaffed unemployment offices because of the long lines. A governor whose Department of Recreation and Resources proposed selling the state parks while, at the same time, offering limo service, hotel, and hockey tickets to businessmen.  

Yes, Lynch will win and the State Employees will lose. He has used his bully pulpit to portray them as the cause of  NH budget problems when he has had 5 years to create a more efficient state government. If, after the lay-offs, there is still a problem, who or what will he blame next?

"Plus Ça Change, Plus C'est La Même Chose"

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by: NHFlatlander @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 12:30:09 PM CDT

? (4.00 / 3)

Could you please point out where Governor Lynch "used his bully pulpit to portray them as the cause of NH budget problems"?  

This is a serious question, because if he has, that is wrong, but I don't remember seeing anything like that.  

"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

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by: Kathy Sullivan 2 @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 14:42:02 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

When he misrepresented (0.00 / 0)

"bumping rights" in his budget address.  

Under our current personnel rules, there are real barriers to improving state government functions. In addition to protecting employees based on seniority, current law also provides for a practice known as "bumping."

A laid-off employee can "bump" another employee in a different job, in some cases anywhere in the agency. It creates a rippling effect that can take months to resolve and prevents commissioners from effectively managing necessary layoffs.

From the Concord Monitor's report of that address:

Lynch said it causes uncertainty and inefficiency ..."

Besides, the contract disagreements were about more than furloughs and lay-offs.  The unions did make several suggestions including 4 day weeks.  Read the comments and letters to the editor if you want to find out the damage that has been done to the reputation of the state employees.


"Plus Ça Change, Plus C'est La Même Chose"

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by: NHFlatlander @ Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 18:33:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'll regret this (4.00 / 1)

Until this recession hit, John Lynch was very much someone who worked hard to improve the situation for state and local government employees. I believe it was his administration which signed a contract with state employees giving them a raise that amounted to 10% over what, 2 or 3 years? And that was without a change in the revenue structure. He also signed the sunrise or sunset or whatever it is called legislation about maintaining step increases if a contract expired without a new one being signed, something that did not make the local governments happy.

Unfortunately, NH, like nearly every other state in the country, is suffering from a steep revenue decline, which is causing layoffs and/or furloughs across the country:  

Like:  
Virginia  http://www2.timesdispatch.com/...

Massachusetts
http://www.employmentspectator...

Iowa
http://blogs.desmoinesregister...

Hawaii
http://www.hawaii247.org/2009/...

Pennsylvania
http://www.pennlive.com/midsta...

To name a few. Anyway, the Governor did not wake up one morning and say, "let's give furloughs to state workers because I want to make people in Hopkinton happy". Not that it would have; not to praise Hopkinton, but Hopkinton voted for Obama, Shaheen, Shea, and Hodes by pretty healthy margins.  

"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

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by: Kathy Sullivan 2 @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 14:39:50 PM CDT

Yes. (4.00 / 5)

As anyone on BH can attest, I don't exactly spend much time (any time?) defending Lynch.

But here I'm not feeling the criticism.  I still don't understand how he negotiated in bad faith, supposedly.  Was there the same amount of money able to be cut elsewhere that would have created a third way besides a) jobs lost and b) jobs saved but furloughs.

(Of course, the larger issue is how NH gets its revenue, and since the Governor adheres to the pledge that is something that affects all budget issues.  And I remain steadfastly opposed to pledge politics.)

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by: Dean Barker @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 17:44:38 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The Wrong People Bearing The Burden (0.00 / 0)

The union does not come out so well in this, so far.
And that's really too bad.
Why should these hard working public servants bear the burden of a failed revenue system?
And why must we expect the return of "donor towns' small towns bearing the burden while the wealthiest individuals continue to enjoy an easy ride?

Some day, and that day is approaching faster, there will be tax fairness. Maybe in my lifetime!

No'm Sayn?

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by: BurtCohen @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 14:48:06 PM CDT

The Wrong People Bearing The Burden (4.00 / 1)

The union does not come out so well in this, so far.
And that's really too bad.
Why should these hard working public servants bear the burden of a failed revenue system?
And why must we expect the return of "donor towns' small towns bearing the burden while the wealthiest individuals continue to enjoy an easy ride?

Some day, and that day is approaching faster, there will be tax fairness. Maybe in my lifetime!

No'm Sayn?

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by: BurtCohen @ Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 14:48:06 PM CDT

It's not just the leaders, the drumbeat is weak. (0.00 / 0)

Our leaders are defensive because they have no over the top vision that takes initiative from the Repubs.  

But, we aren't providing that drumbeat, either.  

Holding hands with foreign kings doesn't follow Republican principles, or Democratic principles.  

George W. Bush isn't a free market type any more than he is a republican.  

George W. Bush isn't fiscally responsible.  

Republicans backed G.W. even though there was plenty of evidence that he wasn't republican, free market, or responsible.  

Beat the drum, everyone!

vt4govt4all

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by: govt4all @ Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 19:27:22 PM CDT