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Open Thread: Ickes Workaround Edition

by: Jack Mitchell

Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 13:22:03 PM EST
( - promoted by Dean Barker)

I so enjoy Taegan Goddard's tickertape.

Democratic Donors Plan to Bypass Obama

Frustrated by what they see as President Obama's weakness in battling Republicans, "leading Democratic donors and tacticians have begun independently plotting their political recovery -- including building a network of outside fundraising and campaign organizations to compete with those formed this year by Republicans," McClatchy-Tribune reports.

A dozen prominent Democrats -- led by longtime Bill Clinton adviser Harold Ickes and labor leader Andy Stern -- will meet next week "to discuss whether to form a new operation to combat the many outside groups launched this year by Karl Rove and other Republican strategists, according to multiple participants."

"Such a move by Democrats comes despite Obama's long-standing opposition to political spending by outside groups, particularly those that refuse to disclose their donors, and underscores the deep dissatisfaction with the White House's strategy on several fronts."

We already have a homespun version:
The "Big Difference" is It will be "Fact-Based".

Please take the poll and then proceed to maximizing the opportunity to explore a tasty Open Thread.
_
Jack Mitchell :: Open Thread: Ickes Workaround Edition
Poll
You beat them by
joining them
being better at what they do then they are
joining them, but with core principles intact
offering the persuadables a hazy difference
offering persuadables a glaring difference
falling off the grid, aka "quitting this bullshit"
Results

Tags: , , , , , (All Tags)
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Open Thread: Ickes Workaround Edition | 40 comments
Stratego-ery (0.00 / 0)
Symmetrical warfare?

NO political funding should go undisclosed, IMAO.

Ruh - roh. (4.00 / 2)
How long before we hear rumblings of a Feingold or Dean primary challenge paving the way for a Clinton entrance (ala Eugene McCarthy in '68)?  

"...underscores the deep dissatisfaction with the White House's strategy on several fronts."  

In the immediate aftermath of Since the start of the financial crisis, the Fed/Treasury lent, spent, or guaranteed $28 $29 trillion to save the banking system.

Get Clean (4.00 / 2)
for Dean?

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

They. Don't. Care.
We do.
Rinse, repeat.

[ Parent ]
I hope that's not it (4.00 / 2)
That never occurred to me until you said it. I think Ickes is just a warrior, and he wants to fight his way. I'm prepared to give this the benefit of the doubt.

If you're right, I'm going to be physically sick. We have never, in my (political) lifetime, had a nominee as good as Barack Obama.

Perfect? Hardly. But by far the best candidate in 2012.


[ Parent ]
I'm OK with Clinton running (4.00 / 1)
There is always the Tea Party.

"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden
[ Parent ]
Or Connecticut for Lieberman (4.00 / 3)
Maybe they'll employ a 50-state strategy in 2012.
[ Parent ]
Rumors of a primary challenge to our President (4.00 / 1)
Are being put out there by Republicans to divide us. Howard Dean has addressed this.

--
Hope > Anarch-tea
Twitter: @DougLindner
[ Parent ]
Secretary Clinton (4.00 / 1)
Secretary Clinton already has said she is not running for president.

http://politics.blogs.foxnews....

Put the tin foil away, folks.  Ickes probably is frustrated at how out-gunned the Democrats were across the country this year. Don't blame him. This is a guy who lost a kidney being beat up as a young civil rights worker; do you really think he wants to sit around and watch the extremists undo the work of the last 50 yeears?  



"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

[ Parent ]
The Game (0.00 / 0)
You're probably right, Kathy. All the Clinton rumors are likely the work of Evan Bayh. We all know how wedges are used to fracture the donors. Only an amateur leaves finger prints.

Ickes kidney is a fine, yet irrevelant, parable. You can lend credence to your enterprise by sticking to core values, not spinning war stories.

"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden

[ Parent ]
Cranky today? n/t (0.00 / 0)




"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    
[ Parent ]
A little :v/ (0.00 / 0)
My hand picked POTUS is underperforming and the national/state level field marshals are panicking.

Justified?

What's the poll say?  

"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden

[ Parent ]
Great oratory was a big piece of why Obama won. (0.00 / 0)
The speeches and the vision are his tools of leadership--I haven't seen him using them much in the past two years.

David Plouffe coming back will help.  Economic recovery will help more.

--
Hope > Anarch-tea
Twitter: @DougLindner

[ Parent ]
OMG (4.00 / 1)
Just realized, I'm channeling my inner Splaine.

"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden
[ Parent ]
Isn't that what I said? (0.00 / 0)
I think Ickes is just a warrior, and he wants to fight his way. I'm prepared to give this the benefit of the doubt.

"Tin foil" smacks of protesting too much, when people cite a widely published article and historical precedents. Just saying.

[ Parent ]
Don't think so (0.00 / 0)
There was a big leap from Ickes and Stern talking about forming a new group to Feingold, Dean and Clinton running for president. That is tin foil territory.  

Howard Dean, that is, not Dean Barker.  



"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

[ Parent ]
Still not tin foil (0.00 / 0)
If you want to say it's not constructive, I'll agree with you. But speculating on any politician's future plans, for almost any office, is fair game.

Anyone can run, and anyone can speculate without losing nine minutes of time, performing alien autopsies, or shooting grainy footage of things walking through the woods (like that Dole ad in 1988).


[ Parent ]
I like Obama's WH middle school science student get togethers a lot, (4.00 / 2)
like that time he had a bunch of students over to look at the stars.

But to be clear my Dean for America 2012 platform will include occasional Latin recitation contests on the White House lawn.

birch paper; on Twitter @deanbarker

[ Parent ]
Different Scenarios (4.00 / 5)
Under your scenario (1968), Feingold or Dean would be Eugene McCarthy (ie. the first one in against an incumbent) and that would make Hlllary Clinton equivalent to the Bobby Kennedy candidacy (ie. the "Johnny Come Lately" candidate).  We should be so lucky, but highly unlikely!

Unfortunately, it is more likely to be the 1980 situation with Feingold or Dean being the Ted Kennedy candidate and the incumbent loses in the general election to the Republican because of the schism in the Democratic Party. That would be a disaster.

Hopefully, it will be like the 1996 election in which the incumbent got his act together after the 1994 mid term debacle, the Democrats rally around him, and the Republicans nominated a weak candidate (e.g. Palin) for their presidential nominee.

[ Parent ]
Predictions are hard to make, (4.00 / 1)
especially about the future.  :>)

The Machiavellian maneuvers always fascinate me, although the days of these types of processes in the political arena seem to be behind us, no?  More stuff seems to happen by accident and opportunity than by brilliant planning.

I often feel a bit guilty that I discounted his inexperience early on in his candidacy and dismissed arguments that this inexperience would cause difficulties for him.  Experience is a good news/bad news condition.  The good news is we learn from our experiences, the bad news is that those experiences we learn from tend to be bad.  Obama seems to be a smart fellow and smart people learn from their experiences.

So, I'm with you, gradysdad, and join in hoping for the best from our now experienced president.

In the immediate aftermath of Since the start of the financial crisis, the Fed/Treasury lent, spent, or guaranteed $28 $29 trillion to save the banking system.

[ Parent ]
Brief history lesson - (4.00 / 4)
Gene McCarthy never signed up to be a stalking horse for Bobby Kennedy.

Allard Lowenstein tried to recruit a challenger to LBJ for a long time. Bobby turned him down - at least in part because it might look like a personal vendetta. George McGovern turned him down. Gene was no more than the third choice.

But once he entered, he was in it to win it. There was really bad blood between the campaigns, with the exception of Richard Goodwin, who signed up with Gene explicitly saying that he would jump to Bobby if Bobby entered.

We remenber the split between LBJ and the Left. There was also a very serious split in 1968 between the McCarthy and Kennedy factions.

As you were.

[ Parent ]
Coming up next: (4.00 / 3)
elwood dishes on the Andrew Jackson campaign.
[ Parent ]
Hypocrisy alert (0.00 / 0)
Dear Justice Scalia,

If you, a Supreme Court Justice, want to complain that the State of the Union address is too partisan a setting for a Supreme Court Justice, maybe make that criticism somewhere other than during a speech to the Federalist Society.

--
Hope > Anarch-tea
Twitter: @DougLindner

Chronic NHDP (0.00 / 0)
I really like this blog. It is good for the soul.

'Cause when I talk to folks, I hear some pretty fucking petty stuff floating around at 30,000ft among the ivory towers of NH's progressive Brahmin.

The pinkies up, velvet shiv BS leads to this:

When I worked for the coordinated campaign in 2000 we had a very hard time convincing Bradley supporters who come out and support Gore-Lieberman. In fact, we had a very hard time convincing the former Bradley activists that they wanted or even welcome among the fold.

The tone of the Kuster campaign and her most ardent supporters after the Primary (and by association this blog) really reminded me of our (and by that I mean the NHDP) troubles engaging people in the fall of 2000.

The hostility did not end after the Primary. In 2000 we had a big fight on our hands and we needed all of the Democratic activists in the state on board to prevail. If Gore supporters, and the Gore campaign in general, had been less hostile to and more welcoming of the former Bradley supporters into the fold would their energy have been enough to push us over to victory? It is impossible to say for sure but I, for one, am convinced it would have made a big difference.

The fact that the 2010 CD-2 Primary was extremely hostile is undeniable. It is also hard to escape the fact that this animosity did not end with Kuster's nomination. Just look at the posts on this diary for proof.

As progressives and as Democrats we need to be able to work together in order to defeat conservatives and Republicans. In this year I think we say that we produced an epic fail on this front.



"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden
"30,000ft among the ivory towers of NH's progressive Brahmin" (0.00 / 0)
One more "them" that isn't "us", Jack.  You seriously undermine your point with that introduction.

--
Hope > Anarch-tea
Twitter: @DougLindner
[ Parent ]
Dude (0.00 / 0)
The seasoned staffers are laughing, right now.

"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden
[ Parent ]
So are the Republicans. (0.00 / 0)


--
Hope > Anarch-tea
Twitter: @DougLindner
[ Parent ]
And Harold Ickes (0.00 / 0)
"I am used to fighting losing battles, but I don't like losing without a fight," said George Soros, a longtime donor to causes on the left, who made a call to arms in private conversations at the post-election meeting of the Democracy Alliance, an organization of wealthy Democrats that provides funding to liberal groups.

In another sign of Democratic unrest, a dozen prominent Democrats -- including longtime Bill Clinton adviser Harold Ickes, labor leader Andy Stern and representatives of influential interest groups -- will meet Monday to discuss whether to form a new operation to combat the many outside groups launched this year by Karl Rove and other Republican strategists, according to multiple participants.

And your patrons.

Pop smoke, like a good soldier. I'm making a straffing run. Keep a low silhouette.

"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden

[ Parent ]
Maybe I'm dense, Jack - no, make that (4.00 / 1)
"prolly" (love that, elwood!) dense, but I really don't understand where you're trying to go with any of this.  Could you elaborate, not in street speak, so that I can understand better?

In the immediate aftermath of Since the start of the financial crisis, the Fed/Treasury lent, spent, or guaranteed $28 $29 trillion to save the banking system.
[ Parent ]
Unfortunately (0.00 / 0)
I am sending coded messages to members of a fractured steering committee.

I'm also doing what the Infantry calls "recon by fire." This is best done with a shotgun with no choke.

Politics, especially close knit, borderline incestuous politics, is ripe for full exploitation by the "butterfly effect."

The garden party mucky muck all smile when they gather, but I don't think the get one simple thing,

It ain't about them, it is about the it!

And this isn't about a party. It's about self importance. Republican's will prostrate themselves, while their bank account grows. The progressive "Brahmin class" are more like the Pharisee.

Of course, I'll never get invited to the WH Easter Egg Roll.

sleeping.giant.stirs AT gmail DOT com

"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden

[ Parent ]
Never say never. I have a new goal in life-- to help bring a smile to Little Jack's face at Easter. (4.00 / 1)


"But, in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." Si se puede. Yes we can.  
[ Parent ]
Another Theory - Triangulation (4.00 / 3)
If I was a conspiracy theorist, I could say with this diary that Jack is triangulating the Clintonistas and the Deanites for the benefit of Obama. He was always a quick learner!
[ Parent ]
Let's circle (4.00 / 2)
Instead of triangle.

Circle-ulation.

Circulation? Improve our circulation?

Wait, this is starting to sound too much like exercise.

[ Parent ]
Politics and Billiards (4.00 / 2)
I blog to reset the table, comment by comment.

Of course, like billiards, the political "table" shows certain angles based on where you are standing. How good of a pool shark can anyone be, if they have one shoe nailed to the floor.
-------------

The Harold Ickes, David Axlerods and Joe Trippis of the world use us, use politicians, use donors to conduct their great political symphonies. Or is it just phony?

So when Kathy begins to set up a group, with a special space for shadow donors and then I see Ickes, et al doing a national version; it doesn't take a tin foil hat to see the two bank accounts shaking hands.

Now, we can ponder intent, but the practice is deplorable. So deplorable, that Kathy and Paul Twomey have been busting thier asses to curtail it. Yet, POOF! Citizens United, a failed NH Legislature reform effort and a mid term wave election later, its ""So, if you can't beat them, join them. "So, if you can't beat them, join them."

What's staggering is that I think that those two, especially as a team, are the smartest folks in the room.

So cut me some slack while I thrash around out here in pain and confusion.

But I'm starting to come around to believe (h/t to Beth Campbell and her SciFi references) that "Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated."

"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden

[ Parent ]
two questions (0.00 / 0)
Where was their d!?# money when we needed it?

What do all three federal candidates who were dropped in New Hampshire have in common?

Not sure what you mean (0.00 / 0)
"all three federal candidates who were dropped" ?

"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden
[ Parent ]
dnc funding (4.00 / 1)

[ Parent ]
Funny that (0.00 / 0)
There is an anti-Obama rumor going around. That he left NH high and dry. I think it's an insidious velvet shiv, but I bet it catches on.

Annie had a real shot, so I don't buy into the wholesale doom and gloom.

CSP? She was best by every metric, but that seat has never been safe. I think the NHDP believed it's own hype and NH-01 fell.

Hodesy is a great guy. I'd take him over John Kerry any day. But, there is a poison in the water for him. It's like a vapor malaise amongst NH Dems. I wish I could find it's source. And Ayotte? She was the perfect "generic" for the race. Voters projected their aspirations onto Ayotte, and it stuck. Plus, The idea of having two Dems as US Senator in NH? Amongst NH Indies? Puh-leeeze?

The DNC is not to blame. Unless you are asking, "What did OFANH do the last two years?"


"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden

[ Parent ]
Yes (0.00 / 0)
That poison in the water, I can't track it either, but I can smell what it smells like.

Not at all sure who pulled the strings, but I don't suspect it was from the top. I believe there was a diary two weeks ago here that showed CSP got $6,000 from DNC vs 1 million + for Giunta from RNC, similar unbalance for Hodes and while the tables were more even for Annie it was mostly Emily's list etc not DNC.

Raises the same questions as the announced separate streams of funding.

Re-setting the table?

[ Parent ]
Not the DNC. (4.00 / 2)
The $ (or lack of it) you refer to is DCCC spending.

They spent in NH-02, and abandoned Carol in NH-01.

Meanwhile, the NRCC dumped more $ in anti-Carol spending (they spent $0.00 on pro-Guinta) than any other candidate in the northeast.

The DNC, iirc, gave some targeted states late breaking money, and NH got $200K, which was fairly large compared to amounts given to larger states.

I haven't tracked DSCC $ closely, but the general impression is that they spent much more on other more competitive races than Hodes-Ayotte.

All of these were drops in buckets compared to the numbers racked up by out-of-state groups in the post-Citizens United age, at least in the realm of ads.

birch paper; on Twitter @deanbarker

[ Parent ]
Thank you (0.00 / 0)
Thinking to look into this a little more I found that as of October 25 the DCCC had not spent a single dollar on NH-01. Van Hollen blamed candidates who did not prepare properly. I don't believe that for a moment.
[ Parent ]
Open Thread: Ickes Workaround Edition | 40 comments

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