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For The Record: Who Started It

by: Jack Mitchell

Thu Jul 29, 2010 at 11:10:53 AM EDT


This diary is an attempt to create a benchmark. It can be argued, but nothing will really come from it, as it is what it is, as they say.

"The reality is it was a very respectful, very amicable campaign up until about a week ago, and now the campaigning has begun," said Wayne Lesperance, a professor of political science at New England College. "It's taken a more aggressive tone, and it's probably going to get worse."

As the candidates seek to distinguish themselves, each side will attempt to tie its opponent to negative associations, Lesperance said. Among the Democrats of the 2nd District, which stretches from the Canadian border to the Massachusetts border and includes both Concord and the Upper Valley, both pharmaceutical lobbying and the unpopular former president could resonate, he said.

With Kuster leading in endorsements and local support, the Swett campaign may have drawn attention to Kuster's lobbying ties in an attempt to get traction, said political analyst Dean Spiliotes. But once the bouts of criticism have begun, he said, they will likely continue up to the primary.

"At some point you forget who the initial instigator was, and it becomes this tactical back-and-forth between the campaigns," Spiliotes said.

Some will suggest that supporters, from one side or the other, were out there bashing away. But we all know supporters are not the campaigns. I have yet to see either campaign use a notable surrogate to throw bombs.

So there, Swett/Coffman started it!

P.S. I have no inclination to allow a Republican to take this congressional seat. Losing control of the House would politcally cripple the President. That said, in no way am I inferring that there is an equivalency between Kuster and Swett. The distinctions are clear, when you get up close and look under the hood. Any suggestion of equivalency is an effort to lull voters to sleep until primary day, when all they'll have to go by is name recognition.

Of course, in the general election, a looming sense of anti-incumbency forecasts the will of the electorate. And if we end up with a 2002 do-over, independents may just decide that they like the President to be from one party and the Congress to be controlled by the other. (shudder to think) It ain't the 1990s no more.

Jack Mitchell :: For The Record: Who Started It
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That's when they made it official, yes. (4.00 / 2)
But lobbing around the L word began much earlier than that too.

A one note strategy, official from the campaign and unofficially here.

birch paper; on Twitter @deanbarker


What bugged me (4.00 / 1)
Condemning Annie's work. Annie is a principled woman.

Even asking her to "explain" her work is insidious. The trap is to force a denial of the false charge or allowing the opponent to bask in the charge, saying "Well, she hasn't denied it." This game can flip flop around, wasting time and energy better spent on issues and grassroots outreach.

I'll say something about Swett's work, she should stay at it.

"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden


[ Parent ]
This is funny (0.00 / 0)
Even asking her to "explain" her work is insidious.

I won't take the bait. . . .  


[ Parent ]
To Repeat (0.00 / 0)
Why is negative to describe Annie's profession (using the same title as the NH Secretary of State's office), but not to write and glorify a year's worth of Swett/Lieberman diaries and comments?  

Seems that no one can explain that.  Hell, Jack just called it "insidious" to even question Annie's paid work for anti-progressive causes.  

Will put some thoughts below on how we can get past this. . . .  


[ Parent ]
I haven't mentioned Lieberman. (0.00 / 0)
Others here have, especially recently.

I find it remarkable that you consider that out-of-bounds in any way. We're talking about a political candidate's history in endorsing other political candidates. Very few things are more clearly relevant and in-bound.


[ Parent ]
I didn't consider it "out of bounds" (0.00 / 0)
. . . and I know that you haven't mentioned Lieberman.

My point above: I considered Lieberman (who Katrina has publicly disavowed) no more relevant than Annie's career as an influential lobbyist for corporate interests with decidedly anti-progressive agendas (which she has refused to address).  

That was my point.  I hope that my proposal below is accepted, so that I don't have to make this comparison again.


[ Parent ]
How many hours is it until 8 PM Septemember 14th? (4.00 / 3)


Hope to see you at the NHDP JJ on Nov 5th!

When we all unite! n/t (4.00 / 2)




"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    


[ Parent ]
Who started it? Jefferson, Madison, Adams... (4.00 / 2)
It's an election, for crying out loud. The competing candidates are not supposed to sing Kumbayah. We're supposed to find out why each thinks s/he's a better choice.

Besides, with 15% name recognition, both candidates may be well served to kick up a little dust.


A Proposal (4.00 / 1)
With all due respect to Elwood's comment above, and to Jack's misguided passion, I would like to put forth a simple proposal.  

Neil Sroka and Meagan Coffman will go at each other like rabid dogs.  We cannot stop that.  They are paid to help their candidates win an election.  They are doing their jobs.  Let them.

But Blue Hampshire does not need to enable them.  And, no, I am not just talking about Dean, Laura, and Jack -- am including myself, as my aggressive responses to anti-Swett diaries are making me sick to my stomach.  Am guessing that no one is having much fun. . . . So here is a simple proposal to "disarm" and facilitate improved dialogue around the 2nd CD race:

* Tenet #1: Focus on the present, not the past.

Both Annie and Katrina have traveled the 2nd CD to articulate their positions on issues.  Let's take them both at face value: I won't assume that Annie is any less progressive than Katrina because of her past corporate lobbying work on certain issues.  You don't claim that Katrina is a bad Democrat because she changed her position on an issue or two during the past eight years. We try to assume that, while neither candidate has a perfect past, both are honestly conveying their public policy stances.  

This doesn't mean that we don't have policy debates on issues where the candidates express disagreements, such as Afghanistan.  But we try to avoid speculation that these disagreements are rooted in some deep-seated antipathy to liberal Democratic values.

* Tenet #2: Avoid the personal

You don't like the "L word"?  Then no more LieberDem crap.  If we follow Tenet #1, then this should be a hell of a lot easier.

* Tenet #3: Criticize those who violate Tenets #1 and #2 -- even when they support your chosen candidate

We can't control bloggers other than ourselves.  But we can criticize those who drive this discussion into the past and the personal.  If someone does, we don't end the peace -- we call them out.

* Tenet #4: When in doubt, respect our nonaligned peers

The "gay marriage" fiasco was a turning point for me, because I felt it was such an intense violation of responsibility on the part of the authors of the BH/Kos diaries.  I recognize that not everyone agrees with that, and that we are all influenced by our respect for -- and friendships with -- these candidates.

So, before we raise the rhetoric, let's try to defer to less partial arbiters like, for example, Kathy Sullivan, a close friend of both candidates.  I would even extend this to include folks like Paul Twomey, a Kuster supporter who has been unfailingly respectful in his comments on this race.

In conclusion:  This is my best offer.  I don't want to spend the next six weeks counterpunching Annie (which I will do with considerably more impact if necessary to defend Katrina against unfair attacks). And I'm sure that even the most die-hard Kuster supporters can see that it is in their interest to focus on nailing Charlie's ass.

If you agree, please "4" this diary.  If 10 people do so, including at least half of the BH Managing Editors and Contributing Writers, then I will consider myself bound by this proposal, and will do my best to help enforce it.


I don't think that'll work... (4.00 / 1)
Katrina Swett's campaign history is not going to go away in the primary. She made a lot of compromises in 2002, and even before Lieberman's split with the party in 2006 he was still firmly on the party's right wing when she chose to back him in 2004. Those are particularly relevant to the Democratic primary, when the question is who will best reflect Democratic values and goals. They aren't disqualifying offenses, but they do illuminate her political thinking, and her response to them now demonstrates her ability to overcome negative issues.

It would do the Democratic Party no service to let either candidate go through the primary without forcing them, however uncomfortably, to develop good campaign skills and figure out a good way to present themselves. If Katrina's campaign can't answer Kuster's partisans asking about her history, she doesn't inspire confidence that she can answer Bass' campaign either. Kuster has been much more convincing in responding to charges of lobbying, and she has a lot fewer other historical issues that demand explaining in a Democratic primary. I'd really like to see Katrina's campaign find a solid, consistent way to deal with her previous political statements, but "We just won't talk about it" is terribly weak.

Only the left protects anyone's rights.


[ Parent ]
If that's how you really feel. . . (0.00 / 1)
If Katrina's campaign can't answer Kuster's partisans asking about her history, she doesn't inspire confidence that she can answer Bass' campaign either. Kuster has been much more convincing in responding to charges of lobbying, and she has a lot fewer other historical issues that demand explaining in a Democratic primary.

Then it's a two way street.  And I will do enough research to make sure of that -- and will challenge your assertion that Annie has "a lot fewer other historical issues."  Trust me.  It won't be that difficult.  (I'm pretty good at this.)

Once again, I would much rather not start any more diaries about Annie's lobbying record. But I can only commit to this if there is a good faith effort to keep Blue Hampshire positive -- on both sides.  I will not stand down unilaterally.

So, if you want to hurt Charlie Bass more than your chosen candidate, please "4" this diary and give it a shot.


[ Parent ]
I haven't supported Kuster either (4.00 / 3)
I think that Kuster has shown more of a knack for campaigning itself, regardless of the issues. This is the same way I recognize that Glenn Beck is very good at what he does, regardless of how I feel about his output. Katrina has a political history, running on her own in 2002, chairing a campaign in 2004, and her abortive Senate run in 2006. Kuster also has a political history, working for Kerry and Obama. Both of them will have to defend their political decisions, and it does not serve either one to have their first experience doing so be in the face of Charlie Bass.

I am not going out and actively looking for things to criticize Katrina Swett on like you are threatening to do to Kuster, I am saying I want to see Katrina learn to deal with the criticisms she is already receiving, and that on a tactical level Kuster appears to be more successfully handling the criticisms being leveled at her. I have not committed to supporting either candidate yet, but I want whoever wins to be good at the mechanics of campaigning, and that includes being good at responding to criticism. Threatening to become an angry volunteer unmoderated oppo researcher does not help Katrina get better at responding to criticism.

Only the left protects anyone's rights.


[ Parent ]
In Response (0.00 / 0)
Threatening to become an angry volunteer unmoderated oppo researcher does not help Katrina get better at responding to criticism.

I'm not discounting your constructive criticisms of the Swett campaign, nor your deserved credit for Kuster.  And I recognize your sincerity.  But my record is clear: I only counterpunch.  I'm trying to find a way not to do that, since (a) I am sick of all this, (b) I want to beat Charlie Bass, and (c) I don't like being the Custer of Blue Hampshire.

But I also won't let the status quo stand.  And, in my opinion, the proposal above is a reasonable way to hold everyone accountable.  


[ Parent ]
A and C (0.00 / 0)
are easily solved.

Go start your own blog.  


[ Parent ]
I'm sure that would make you very happy (0.00 / 0)
Then you would have no dissent at all! Everyone likes the same candidate, and can join together to beat up the other!  Yay!

No such luck.  Find someone else to bully.


[ Parent ]
now that's funny! (0.00 / 1)
You come in, deliberately spam threads with LOBBYIST accusations, regardless of the thread topic, then  make threats and demands about what you'll do if people don't accede to YOUR wishes, and call ME a bully?  I tink Dr. Freud vuld call dis projectink.

It's especially rich, given the treatment you and some of your pals have given me at different times for being a dissenter.

I hope you're being handsomely paid to sacrifice your credibility.  


[ Parent ]
TRed for out-and-out lies (0.00 / 0)
I hope you're being handsomely paid to sacrifice your credibility.

I have never taken a dime from the Swett campaign, nor am I involved in the campaign.  And you know that, but that doesn't stop you from lying.

I love how, on the New BH, it's not negative for Dean to post front page diaries attacking Katrina on a daily basis.  It's only negative for the lone Swett supporter to counter.  Truly a wonderful double standard.


[ Parent ]
it's negative (0.00 / 0)
to spam, make demands and threats. Your mendacity is truly reaching epic proportions.

I don't know that you don't work for the Swett campaign. I don't know who you are or what you do for a living.
It is precious though, that you accuse me of lying, while you actually are.



[ Parent ]
Well, I do know Dave (4.00 / 3)
I don't agree with him on some points and I certainly object to his style of spreading the "L" word around like politcal chum.

That said, he isn't an asshole, so please stop treating him as such.

It is clear he is "in tune" with the Swett campaign, but he has known them for years. However, he repeatedly states that he is not on their payroll, nor is he actively collaborating with the campaign.

Until someone can prove otherwise, I take his word.



"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden


[ Parent ]
in fact (4.00 / 1)
he is professionally a dedicated fighter against violence towards women...July 15th FB update( without DD's permission)

At "Ending Violence Against Women and Teen Dating Violence: A Forum for Primary Prevention Advocates" with speakers including Jackson Katz, Elizabeth Reed, Representatives of of Groundspark,Close to Home, Break the Cycle, Transforming Communities, Family Violence Prevention Fund and more.
And I also presented on Emergi...ng Trends in Sexual & Domestic Violence Prevention.

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)


[ Parent ]
he and I can go round and round (4.00 / 1)
because we know on election night we will be together...united as Kathy says... no kidding, it keeps happening.

supporting the Demo Derby.

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)


[ Parent ]
This discussion needs a time out. (4.00 / 5)
The tone of a lot of this discussion really is unfortunate.

There are things that every campaign would prefer not to have be the subject of discussion. On both sides of this race, supporters of the candidates have been reacting to subjects they dont like (Lieberman, Lobbying and all the other 'L' words) with ever increasingly nasty personal attacks.

While everyone is free to behave or misbehave as they choose, they shouldn't do so under the misapprehension that they are helping their candidate-- being unpleasant with the other side is only going to hurt whoever the candidate ends up being. People can easily get over arguments about policy or qualities of candidates, they rarely get over being called "liar" "prostitute" etc. So if the goal is to make sure that your candidate wins the primary and then gets buried in the general, both sides of this discussion have made a good start.

Lecture over. Out of your corners.


"But, in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." Si se puede. Yes we can.  


[ Parent ]
Nosce Te Ipsum (0.00 / 0)
Voters can see through political parlor tricks.


"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden

[ Parent ]
The Straight Dope (0.00 / 1)
I was very clear.  And if I don't hold up my end of the bargain, then you have my own words to hold me accountable.

I am not making this offer because it helps Katrina.  Am pretty sure it doesn't -- she's already lost the "Blue Hampshire" primary, and her most minute political foibles have been recycled a thousand times on this blog.  Diminishing returns.  Not so with Annie's record, which will be far more interesting to lurkers. (Very easy to poke holes through the "PhRMA paid me to feed the hungry" routine.  I just really don't want to spend the next six weeks doing it.)

But, once again, it's a two-way street.  That's my only condition.  If you don't take it, then don't complain later about "who started it."  We can finish it on Blue Hampshire.  Now.


[ Parent ]
This is too much for me. (4.00 / 1)
DD, I am tired of reading your threats, and threats they are. Threatening to write diaries "exposing" things about Kuster will not convince anybody to support Swett. "Punishing" Kuster supporters for bringing up issues? "Punishing" Blue Hampshire for endorsing Kuster? It is tiresome to me.

I don't know about you, but I do not respond well to "threats" and "punishment".

Please stop it. Now. Write something positive about Swett that isn't about anyone else. There is a lot there.

You can discount me as a Kuster supporter, but you know what? I was finishing a meeting and talking to two Swett supporters and an undecided about this primary.  We were all civil and all in agreement about most things, all the while speaking to the strengths and weaknesses of both candidates.

Lead by example, not by threats.


[ Parent ]
In Response (0.00 / 0)
DD, I am tired of reading your threats, and threats they are. Threatening to write diaries "exposing" things about Kuster will not convince anybody to support Swett.  

Call it threats, call it whatever you want.  I'm using the one means at my disposal to try to stop the constant stream of invective thrown at Katrina Swett.  If you don't like that, come up with another option.  I'll take Door #2 -- so long as it involves something other than sitting quietly while Kuster supporters shred Katrina up and down, while (a) playing fast and loose with the facts, or (b) holding the two candidates to far different standards.

"Punishing" Kuster supporters for bringing up issues? "Punishing" Blue Hampshire for endorsing Kuster? It is tiresome to me.

Check your facts: I never once threatened to "punish" Blue Hampshire for endorsing Kuster.  I criticized the decision to refer to your collective endorsement at "Blue Hampshire", and to do so early enough in the race so as to undermine BH's potential as a valuable forum for the primary.  Obviously rubbed you the wrong way, but there was no "punish" statement of any kind.

And let's be clear: I made no single negative comment about Ann until the outrageous gay marriage slur, which your fellow editors perpetrated and which you let stand without comment.  But if you "bring up issues" about Katrina, expect a response.  Nothing more, nothing less.

All I am trying to do is defend a woman who deserves far better than the shoddy treatment she has received on this site.  And I would very much like to do that without responding in kind.

You can discount me as a Kuster supporter, but you know what? I was finishing a meeting and talking to two Swett supporters and an undecided about this primary.  We were all civil and all in agreement about most things, all the while speaking to the strengths and weaknesses of both candidates.

Lead by example, not by threats.

That's what the proposal is for, Jennifer.  It's about trying to keep this primary civil, and to keep the focus where it should be: on the strengths of our candidates, and the weakness of Charlie Bass.

So far, only Kathy Sullivan has signed on.  I hope others do, in spite of the cynicism.


[ Parent ]
your best offer? (4.00 / 3)
This is my best offer.  I don't want to spend the next six weeks counterpunching Annie (which I will do with considerably more impact if necessary to defend Katrina against unfair attacks).

A breathtaking display of overweening ego, combined with a threat that sounds a lot like blackmail.

I don't negotiate with terrorists. Or egomaniacs.


[ Parent ]
Not blackmail -- deterrence (0.00 / 0)
I'll let your namecalling pass.  You clearly can't help yourself.

[ Parent ]
If I were advising the candidates..... (4.00 / 7)
Let's look at this race from the perspective of an undecided Democratic voter who may not know either Katrina or Annie well but who really wants a D to win the seat. Wouldn't that voter want to know which candidate will do  the best job taking the fight to Charlie Bass or Jennifer Horn? This Nyah Nyah about "she was for Lieberman" "she was a lobbyist" doesn't make the case to the voters.  I agree with Elwood that this is a campaign and they should be drawing distinctions, but the distinctions being drawn here aren't telling the voters who the best candidate will be in November. Too much bickerblogging not enough "why my candidate will beat Bass/Horn".

One of the reasons CSP won the '06 primary is that she really did know Bradley's record better than Bradley. What do Annie and Katrina bring to this race? If I were voting in the 2nd that's what I would want to know.

     



"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    


feats of strength? (4.00 / 4)
we can solve this in the Festivus mode

Feats of Strength

The Feats of Strength is the final tradition observed in the celebration of the 2nd CD Primary.The head of the household, in this case Raymond, selects one person at the celebration and challenges that person to a wrestling match.[5] The person may decline if they have something else to do, such as pull a double shift at work. Tradition states that the 2nd CD Primary is not over until the head of the household is pinned in a wrestling match.

The Feats of Strength are mentioned twice in the episode before they actually take place. In both instances, no detail was given as to what had actually happened, but in both instances, DD ran out of the show's portrayal of a New York coffee shop in a mad panic, implying he had bad experiences with the Feats of Strength in the past. What the Feats of Strength entailed was revealed at the very end of the episode, when it actually took place. Failing to pin the head of the household results in Festivus continuing until such requirement is met.

From the "Seinfeld" episode:

   Jack Mitchell: "And wasn't there a Feats of Strength that always ended up with you crying?"
   DD:           "I can't take it anymore! I'm going to work! Are you happy now?!"
   Frank Costanza: "I've brought one of the cassette tapes."
   Elwood(on a tape recorder): "Read that poem."
   DD (on a tape recorder): "I can't read it, I need my glasses."
   Elwood (on a tape recorder): "You don't need glasses! You're just weak, weak!"
   Suzanne the Bruce (on a tape recorder): (shouts) "Leave him alone!"
   Elwood (on a tape recorder): "All right, George. It's time for the Festivus Feats of Strength!"
   DD: "No! No! Turn it off! No Feats of Strength! I hate Festivus!"
   Elwood: "We had some good times."  



A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)

Look (4.00 / 3)
I don't really care for Katrina's record, and I think she sounds like a Republican half the time. For instance, she was quoted in the Monitor in 2006 attributing Liberman's loss to what Democrats supposedly view as "sins": "the sin of supporting the Iraq war and being tough on defense, the sin of being bipartisan and the sin of displaying religious faith." I'm not sure how she sounds different from John Boehner there.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/...

But if it's a choice between her and Bass or any other Republican, I will enthusiastically pull the lever for Katrina, I will have signs in front of my house, etc. We need to keep control of the House, and we need to keep New Hampshire blue.

For the primary, I am supporting Kuster. But to this extent let's agree with DD--avoid the circular firing squad. We have enough problems.


Tale Of Two Campaigns via Screengrab (0.00 / 0)
Photobucket

"Ill writers are usually the sharpest censors." - John Dryden

Campaign cheers in an L shaped room (4.00 / 1)
I say Lieberdem you say Lobbying, I say Lieberdem you say Lobbying, I say Lieberdem you say Lobbying...YAYYYY Team!

After 2004 cycle Joe ran as independent in CT where he was supported by the Swetts. His wife was Lobbyist and he was 'rumored to be' in the pocket of the largest Insurance and Pharma co.s. Back in those heady days they had not yet learned the evils assciated with trying to influence legislation. I feel so comfortable knowing katrina would be above and beyond their reach if she were elected. Not.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/t...

How angry are ultraliberal talk show hosts over Joe Lieberman's opposition to a government "competitor" in the health insurance system, the so-called "public option"? Ed Schultz was mad enough Wednesday to get very personal with Hadassah Lieberman, the senator's wife, who has worked for several DC lobbying firms. Schultz suggested she was a "whore." He said:

   Now, the pillow talk in the Lieberman household in the sack had to be rather interesting, OK? You have got the wife working on behalf of the industry that's lining the pockets of the senator who has now come out against the public option. OK, look, how dumb are we? Is this a coincidence?

He asked: Does the word 'whore' apply? Are we there yet?

Mrs. Lieberman's interests in the health debate are nebulous, according to left-wing journalist Joe Conason at Salon.com:  

   The Lieberman family's financial ties to the health industry are no secret, yet their full extent remains unknown. During her husband's 2006 reelection campaign, Hadassah Lieberman's employment as a "senior counselor" to Hill & Knowlton, one of the world's biggest lobbying firms, briefly erupted as an issue, especially because the clients she served were in the controversial pharmaceutical and insurance sectors. Exactly what she did for those clients has never been disclosed.

gross headlines...


Lieberman Literally In Bed With Drug-Insurance Lobby
October 28th, 2009  
By El Somnambulo

Geez, you'd think that the Main Stream Media might have discovered that Pious Joe's equally-pious wife has returned to her roots-as a lobbyist for the pharmaceutical and health care industries with conservative lobbying shop Hill & Knowlton, which also numbers AIG among its clients. She had previously worked for APCO Associates, a lobbying shop that included Pfizer Pharmaceutical and other drug companies as clients; and, before that, as director of Policy, Planning, and Communications (aka 'lobbying') at Pfizer from 1982-85

Bold mine...

Who is also an APCO International adviser? Hint...he's married to a candidate we know
linky...

http://www.apcoworldwide.com/c...



A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)



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