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NH-Gov Straw Poll #3

by: Mike Hoefer

Thu Sep 29, 2011 at 08:58:20 AM EDT
Have at it.
Mike Hoefer :: NH-Gov Straw Poll #3
Poll
If the Democratic Nomination for Governor was held today, for whom would you Vote?
Jackie Cilley
Mark Connolly
Maggie Hassan
Gary Hirshberg
John Kacavas
Steve Marchand
Undecided
Other
Results

Tags: , , , , , , , (All Tags)
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NH-Gov Straw Poll #3 | 88 comments
Straw Poll (1.00 / 1)
Ms. Hassin is too liberal to win the general election in my opinion and I am a long-standing "undeclared" (previously independent) voter.  My vote goes to Jackie Cilley
too liberal? (4.00 / 1)
What makes Maggie Hassan "too liberal"?  

I am one of those who thinks we need an unabashed, outspoken progressive alternative in the next election.  Yes, a progressive nominee will be smeared as a "socialist" by the O'Brienauts--- but anyone with a D after their name will get that treatment, no matter how conservative they are.

[ Parent ]
Not if... (0.00 / 0)
...they're not a politician and run a successful NH business.  

Aaron / Deering. Kuster 2012: http://www.kusterforcongress.com/

[ Parent ]
you are naive (1.00 / 1)
Any candidate with a D after their name, ANYONE, will be characterized as a socialist.  That's just the way the teabaggers roll.
[ Parent ]
even the yogurt man (0.00 / 0)
Even Gary Hirschberg, who runs one of NH's most famous and most successful businesses, would be characterized as a "socialist."

[ Parent ]
He's also been (0.00 / 0)
a proponent of a revised state tax structure, to be more complete. There's no perfect candidate, but Independents want jobs... an actual business owner with actual employees is the right optics for this climate, especially when compared to someone who can accurately be portrayed as a career politician.

I haven nothing at all against any of the other persons listed - to be clear. I just want to keep the Governor's seat.

Aaron / Deering. Kuster 2012: http://www.kusterforcongress.com/

[ Parent ]
What about our audience? (0.00 / 0)
Yes, there are those that will always shout fire in a crowded theatre; they are a lost cause.  Independents are the target audience. IF the GOP has the smarts to nominate a moderate, then your perfect Progressive will not win a sufficient number of Independents to win.

I would suggest nominating Progressives for the House instead, since there are a sufficient number of persons who just vote the party line that far down the ballot. Marty Harty anyone?

For Governor, go moderate - That seat is a must win for Veto power alone.

For the House, go Progressive - They write the bills after all.

Aaron / Deering. Kuster 2012: http://www.kusterforcongress.com/

[ Parent ]
Why do you say that Maggie Hassan is more liberal than Jackie Cilley? (4.00 / 3)
 This is a real question-- I am curious as to the data that is available to make such a determination before the campaign has begun.

I like both JC and MH and wouldn't know what to say if someone asked me who was more liberal or progressive or centrist or anything at this stage.

That's just something I don't have a real sense of and something that I look forward to learning about in a campaign as the candidates and their supporters draw the distinctions. (And to be clear, I would be more likely to vote for the person I thought was more liberal, although that could easily be trumped by competence, integrity, toughness, chances of holding the seat and a host of other factors).

"But, in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." Si se puede. Yes we can.  

[ Parent ]
I didn't (0.00 / 0)
Though I'm supposing this was meant to reply to another post :)

Aaron / Deering. Kuster 2012: http://www.kusterforcongress.com/

[ Parent ]
yep-- sorry-- meant it for the first poster. (0.00 / 0)


"But, in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." Si se puede. Yes we can.  
[ Parent ]
Can't Be Governor Lamontagne, Governor Smith, Or Governor O'Brien (3.67 / 3)
My vote went to Mark Connolly.  I've known Mark since the mid-1970s and I have the greatest of respect for him and his work.  He'd be a great Governor.

But I also like several of the others listed and they'd be excellent too.  Maggie has deep experience, Jackie is committed to important ideals and helped much on the Granny D. cause.

Steve Marchand is very intelligent, has idealism, and knows politics well, and I've always appreciated John Kacavas for his abilities dating to when I met him in the NH House.  

I don't know Gary Hirshberg but know of him, and he sounds like he's done good things.  I've heard Paul Hodes might be thinking about it, and he'd be a tough candidate and already has solid experience of major campaigns -- learning last year perhaps what he could do better.  Former St. Sen. Peter Burling would be a great choice, and Mark Fernald would be exciting.

The great thing about 2012 is that we have a strong bench, :] with plenty of backfield that could win it in the stretch for the Democrats better than the Red Sox did during the past month.  :[  

The important thing will be not to let the primary divide us, and then to get behind our choice to help all the State Legislative candidates as well.  

It can't be "Governor Lamontagne" or "Governor Smith" in 2013.  Or "Governor O'Brien."  

Not voting. (1.00 / 1)
Too much freeping.

--
Hope > Anarch-tea
Twitter: @DougLindner
I think that is part of it (0.00 / 0)
in a way... I like the fact that we give folks the chance to reach out/build networks for action.  

Hope >> Fear





Create a free Blue Hampshire account and join the conversation.
[ Parent ]
This is silly. (4.00 / 5)
If you have proof that someone is dishonestly working the system with sockpuppets or something,  that's one thing. You should contact Mike with your concerns.

But if you refer to how candidates may be able to get this out to their prospective support networks, well, that's part of what's interesting.

This site is mostly active among NH lefty political junkies. How they respond to the poll is interesting in and of itself, even if it is obviously not reflective of actual voter sentiment.  Most voters have no idea who any of these folks are at this point.

birch paper; on Twitter @deanbarker

[ Parent ]
I'm not accusing anyone of being dishonest, (0.00 / 0)
But this isn't a measure of anything meaningful, and I think that's worth pointing out.

Nothing against anyone.

--
Hope > Anarch-tea
Twitter: @DougLindner

[ Parent ]
250+ other users (0.00 / 0)
define meaningful differently.

birch paper; on Twitter @deanbarker
[ Parent ]
what is "freeping"? (4.00 / 1)
am not familiar with the term
[ Parent ]
freeping defined (0.00 / 0)
freeping
http://www.urbandictionary.com...
stacking poll results by directing people to a web poll; with the goal of intentionally biasing the results to support their particular point of view
"Attention all believers in the sanctity of baby peas. There is a poll on a babypeasaredelicious.com. Go there and vote that every baby pea is sacred and should be saved, even those that are frozen and will never be planted in the ground"


A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)
[ Parent ]
Bring in the independents (4.00 / 1)
I think we need a candidate with a strong fiscal record to go along with an excellent record on social issues. I think we need a candidate that can convince independents that we are the party of common sense when it comes to fiscal and economic policy. I think the candidate to do that, who has that kind of record, is former Portsmouth Mayor Steve Marchand. He has strong idea, an excellent record, and Lynch like appeal. We need that at the top of our ticket in 2012 if we want to take back the state.
Fiscal prudence (4.00 / 1)
I agree about a strong fiscal record as well as a strong record on the social side.  New Hampshire voters tend to be socially liberal across the spectrum, and having an eventual nominee whose social values reflect those of the majority in the state will be a huge contrast against the right-wingers currently being mentioned as Republican candidates.

To attract independents and Republicans who have grown tired of the [present circus in Concord, the Democratic nominee should also exhibit what I would call fiscal prudence.  For too long New Hampshire has relied on the no income or sales tax gimmick, and the result has not only been deteriorating infrastructure and declining services, but also the creation of a one-trick pony in terms of attracting and retaining development, residents, tourists and businesses. A Democrat who refuses to take the Pledge will get some heat from certain sources, groups and voters, but it's important to show that refusing to maturely address revenue issues is not "fiscal conservatism" but immature and delusional fiscal imprudence.  Having a demonstrated background of sound fiscal management will be immensely helpful in convincing independents of this.

[ Parent ]
You really want to engage in experiments in 2012? (4.00 / 1)
I don't.  



"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    
[ Parent ]
Oh Kathy (0.00 / 0)
where is your sense of adventure?

standing on the sidelines looking for a reason to enter the fray.
[ Parent ]
Lost it in 2002 n/t (4.00 / 2)




"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    
[ Parent ]
No. (4.00 / 2)
But I don't think refusing to take the pledge is an experiment, especially if the candidate has a solid record, whether that be as a mayor, businessperson or so on.  I'm not saying candidates need to run on a pro-income or sales tax platform; I just think being beholden to the ghost of a bigot publisher at a time of dwindling services and budget shortfalls is more of an experiment than saying it's time for an adult conversation.  Jeanne Shaheen did this in her successful last run for governor if I recall correctly, and there seemed to be a good deal of support for eschewing the Pledge in those towns where Fair Tax Coalition got a referendum on the ballot a few years back.

I don't want to be unrealistic--candidates need to be electable, which is why I want to see any candidate who wisely and honestly refuses to take the Pledge also have an articulate response to naysayers as well as a solid record/background to reference.

[ Parent ]
I disagree (4.00 / 4)
Jeane Shaheen was a popular two term incumbent who nearly lost to Gordon Humphrey; she won with a plurality, not a majority (there was a 3rd party candidate). She also had fiscal street cred.

I understand the desire to stand up and say, the only pledge I take is to the state and federal constitutions and to do the best job I can. But, I don't see anything wrong with a candidate pledging to veto a policy the candidate does not agree with.

I've said this before: New Hampshire's current fiscal woes are not driven by the tax structure, but by the effects of the recession. Look at every other state and what those states have done - including, for example, New York, which has both a sales and an income tax, as well as  property taxes.  It has been exacerbated here by an O'Brien led legislature which lowballed revenue estimates and also cut revenues for ideological reasons.    



"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

[ Parent ]
c'mon Kathy (3.00 / 3)
NH's actual fiscal woes are the direct result of our tax structure. It's the reason we have a 19th century infrastructure. It's the reason we rank in 70th place for state spending on post-secondary education. It's the reason our state parks look like shit. It's also the reason young people don't stay here or move here.  
[ Parent ]
You are much kinder than am I about our tax structure (0.00 / 0)
Especially when you remember that the reason that we don't have an income tax is Shaheen. It was passed by both Republican controlled houses. When I hear this stuff I hear only excuses.
[ Parent ]
It isn't just NH (0.00 / 0)
The infrastructure in most states is 19th century and crumbling. State parks in California and other states have been closed due to lack of funding. Out migration of young people is a New England wide problem.
NH has a lot of the same issues as states with income and sales taxes.

 



"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

[ Parent ]
of course (0.00 / 0)
the difference it that those states have more resources to at least repair their infrastructure. NH is choosing between plowing and fixing bridges.  
[ Parent ]
Other locations (0.00 / 0)
In New York City, mass transit cut services, and also delayed restoration projects, while cutting education programs. In California, advocacy groups for the disabled are suing the state over budget cuts. The state university system is raising tuition by 9.6%, on top of an 8% hike enacted this past fall.

In Ohio, they are talking about drilling for oil and gas in the state parks, and the state faces $1 billion in delayed repairs and maintenance.

None of this is good news - but my point is, New Hampshire's major problem right now is dealing with the lingering effects of the recession, just like all these states that have income taxes and sales taxes. Unfortunately we have a Republican legislature which exacerbated the problem by cutting revenues and lowballing revenue estimates.  

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

http://www.mercurynews.com/bre...

http://www.universityofcalifor...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06...



"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

[ Parent ]
I Understand Both Sides... (4.00 / 4)
...and I appreciate much that Kathy has done and says on New Hampshire issues.  

ButI believe it is unconscionable to have a tax structure that exploits our poor and middle class and makes our wealthy wealthier.  Too many needs are going for want.  Too many people -- OUR citizens who call New Hampshire "home" -- are hurting.  Badly.  

Government in a democracy is a shared responsibility, and should be paid for on an ability-to-pay basis.  Not all of us have figured out a way to become wealthy, and many people who have attained wealth have done so on the backs of those who work for low wage.  

Mark Fernald, our 2002 Democratic Gubernatorial Nominee, made a good case.  If he hadn't been running against the 11-Million-Dollar-Man in a tough year for Democrats, who knows.  But to drop the challenge of reaching for higher standards in government should not be at the expense of our idealism, nor be based on perceived fear of voters.  

[ Parent ]
No Pledges, please... (0.00 / 0)
If we want Republican ideas, we'd vote for Republicans and not their weak replicas!
[ Parent ]
How about a pledge to end the reliance on property tax? (4.00 / 1)

The property tax is regressive and inadequate for funding of our educational responsibilities. It drives up the cost of housing, is brutal on the elderly and leaves us with a grossly underfunded educational system from K to UNH. Under funding education is a strategy for suicide. Where the educated are is where the jobs of the future will be.

I would like to see a pledge to end the situation where the property tax reigns because it is the status quo default against all other proposals. I would like to see someone sometime pledge to eliminate the property tax and thus force people to give ground and talk about alternatives.

"But, in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." Si se puede. Yes we can.  

[ Parent ]
Interesting (4.00 / 1)
I would not be adverse to that pledge, Paul.
[ Parent ]
The good news, FLM, (4.00 / 1)
is that primary voters will decide who their candidate will be.  And I'm pretty confident that we'll have at least one candidate who represents your description of an ideal.

Then, there's this:

If we don't provide a strong moral vision and give people something to fight for, they're not going to fight.  Saying we're better than the other guy just isn't enough.

"It has become Appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity"
   - Albert Einstein

[ Parent ]
taking pledges (4.00 / 3)
is an admission that one cannot think for one's self. That's why Republicans take so many of them.  
[ Parent ]
taking pledges (0.00 / 0)
susanthe, you are so correct.
It is the easiest path follow without a real commitment to any issue.  
[ Parent ]
Susan Emerson (R), NH State Rep., Rindge, (4.00 / 3)
has stated publicly that she will not take "the pledge" this time around. She is a fierce advocate for children, disabled, poor and believes we have to do whatever is necessary to provide a safety net.  If a staunch Republican who was one of Barbara Bush's "Silver Foxes" won't take "the pledge," while running in Rindge, a very Republican town, Democrats ought to be willing to do the same.

"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it." Albert Einstein
[ Parent ]
You make a big assumption (4.00 / 3)
The assumption is that it is a given that the adoption of an alternative tax structure is necessary for one to be a fierce advocate for children, disabled, and the poor. I don't agree with you on that.

And, while you are comtemplating political strategy, think about this: if not taking the pledge means ceding the control of all levels of state government to those who are not fierce advocates for children, the poor and the disabled, are you not sacrificing your ability to advocate for those causes on the altar of a tax policy which does not have the support of the majority of voters in New Hampshire? I always thought that Spartan thing about either returning with your shield or on your shield was highly overrated. Sometimes dropping your shield, but  getting home alive and building a new shield is a viable option.

Maybe Susan's strategy will work for her even if Rindge does become a separate house district; right now the district includes Dublin and jaffrey, two towns which I would not classify as very Republican, as they both went for Obama in 08.



"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

[ Parent ]
not taking a pledge (1.00 / 1)
is NOT the same as advocating for an income tax. I know you know that, and are ignoring it intentionally.

I'm tired of all of the pledges the GOP take - because, the bottom line is they don't adhere to them (term limits pledge, Charlie Bass) they are never held accountable for their failure to adhere, and frankly, no one voted for Grover Norquist. They take so many pledges that they are literally incapable of thinking for themselves, or responding to the needs of their constituents. That's not the live free or die way. General Spark would not be impressed with this kind of institutional lockstep.

This could be framed in such a way that it has great appeal. Well, could be if the Democrats hired out the framing job.  

[ Parent ]
Shaheen did NOT take the pledge in 2000 (4.00 / 2)
and still won re-election.

"New times demand new thinking," Shaheen said.  "I cannot will not arbitrarily rule out any potential solution to the challenge we face.  My first Priority must be to make sure that all children, no matter where they live, get the education they deserve.

"This is the promise I make to you:  I will fight for a solution that is good for kids and smart for our economy, a solution that will stand the test of time."


http://news.google.com/newspap...

Whoever runs on the Democratic ticket would be wise to follow her lead.  

Can someone explain to me why, if they love the Constitution so much, the right-wingers keep introducing amendments to change it?

[ Parent ]
As I said elsewhere (4.00 / 1)
She was a popular two term governor running for re-election, and despite that nearly lost to Gordo Humphrey, an extreme right wing ideologue. She was re-elected with a plurality, not a majority.




"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    
[ Parent ]
Courage Is Saying What You Believe (0.00 / 0)
And leadership is to do what is right, even when you're marching into some winds.  

Jeanne Shaheen has courage and is a good leader.  

[ Parent ]
And had the chance to make an income tax into law (0.00 / 0)
To say nothing of eliminating the death penalty
[ Parent ]
In Defense Of Jeanne Shaheen... (0.00 / 0)
...since 1996 she had taken a strong stand against abolishing the death penalty, a position also eventually taken by John Lynch.  I sponsored that 2000 bill abolishing the death penalty and worked hard for it, meeting with the Governor trying to persuade her not to veto it after passing through the House and Senate.  That she did veto was her belief, though I believe she was wrong.  I was sad we couldn't convince her otherwise.  We tried.  

On tax reform, she did propose a sales tax, which most Democrats supported as did some Republicans.  I happened to be opposed to a sales tax, favoring an income tax based on ability to pay dedicated solely to education.  She had said she was opposed to an income tax and stuck to that position.  

[ Parent ]
tax structure (4.00 / 2)
If what you meant to say is that you don't agree with the assumption that advocating (not adopting) an alternative tax structure is not necessary for one to be a fierce advocate for children, disabled and the poor, then I simply can't agree.

You say "New Hampshire's current fiscal woes are not driven by the tax structure, but by the effects of the recession. Look at every other state...."  So what?  Yes, it is true that NH's current fiscal woes owe primarily to the recession, but that does not mean the tax structure does not need reforming.  The problem is a structural deficit.  That doesn't change when a bigger cyclical deficit hits.  You seem to imply that since we're now in the same boat as a lot of other states (many of which also have structural deficits, I think) in the wake of this recession, we can get away with avoiding addressing the underlying reality.

How about this reality?  The whole crisis is made up.  NH is one of the richest states in the country.  We could have easily afforded bridging the entire gap with revenues alone.  We can easily afford to maintain world class public infrastructures, programs and services throughout our state, which would drive economic development and generate more revenue.  We have the lowest tax burden in the country.  Paying merely the national average in state and local taxes would have generated an extra $1.93 billion in 2008.  That's nearly the entire General Fund and Education Fund.  Leaders are supposed to lead, not quake and duck and quack.  Not mislead.  Not lie.

How can one be a fierce advocate for children while simultaneously being a fierce advocate for a revenue structure that cannot maintain essential programs and services for them?  How can one be a fierce advocate for children while fiercely advocating for a tax structure in which millionaires pay one fourth the rate of those living in poverty, and which doesn't raise enough funds to reliably provide an even level of services from year to year?  How can one be a fierce advocate for children while essentially being a fiercer advocate for a lie, sacrificing the needs of today's children and future generations for it?  How can one be a fierce advocate for children while not only being a fierce advocate for a lie oneself, but forcing an entire political party to echo and amplify that lie?  

No, I can't agree with you.  Unless it's all rhetoric, all the time now--that being a fierce advocate for anything entails ferocity alone, truth and substance be damned.

E.B. White once said, "If you can't pronounce a word, say it loud."  Or something like that.  Best way for a Democrat to take the pledge--fiercely.

Susanthe is right: there are ways to frame taking a stand, not taking a pledge.  And she's right that the current Democratic leadership is unlikely to know the first thing about how to do it.

I have heard people say that a Democrat will be so much better on everything else that it's worth the sacrifice to elect one on the pledge.  How many budget cycles will it take, crowing over 90% of the last biennium's 90% of the prior biennium's 90% of 90% of what long since stopped being adequate for maintaining a semblance of what is needed?  At some point, fundamental structures will become so eroded it really will be so expensive to fix them that when privatizing vultures swoop in to steal the carcass of our state, we'll thank them for it.  Oh wait--I think I hear the cawing now.

Oh yeah, take the pledge and take it loud.  Enthusiasm gap, anyone?

[ Parent ]
I disagree n/t (0.00 / 0)




"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    
[ Parent ]
I think you are wrong, Kathy, (0.00 / 0)
but I understand the fear.  I have learned that there are fears that should be walked through, and I think this is one we need to face.  We need to stop cowering in the corner, it's a demeaning pose and it attracts bullies. (There are a bunch in the State House right now!)  We need to talk about this, not take pledges.  

I love Jackie Cilley's approach.  She has courage, Jackie, just as Carol Shea Porter has courage.  Sometimes one really needs to step out of the comfort zone, if only for the good of our souls.  Never mind the welfare and future of our children.

You think the GOP will win the state if we don't bow down to Meldrim?  Maybe they will.  Then NH can learn some more about what the pledge is all about, the hard way.  Is it really our job to scurry around in corners trying to clean up after these guys, time after time?  There must be a better way.  

[ Parent ]
Okay Lucy... (0.00 / 0)
Lucy,

I am troubled by your post. I am not going to join in the now nearly century old debate on taxes in NH, I just want to be sure I understand what I read.  Did you mean to write that it would be better to let the people of NH suffer under Republican domination in order to 'educate' them that you know better? I am sure that is not what you meant.

Have you registered for the Sept 24 State Convention yet?

[ Parent ]
Close enough (2.00 / 3)
Whatever Lucy meant, I will say this:  It is better to lead and campaign forcefully and honestly and clearly with Democratic values, which poll after poll shows broad public agreement with--nearly 75%.  Nearly 75% in the April 2011 UNH poll supported balancing the budget with some combo of spending cuts and revenue increases.  (When polls ask questions about taxes out of context, e.g. Hey, would you like an income tax?  Would you like a sales tax?  Would you like a poke in the eye?, of course people say no.  When polls ask do you want adequately funded higher education, etc. etc. people say yes.  Has there ever been a poll that connected the two?  E.g. which would you rather have, the lowest tax burden in the U.S. or strong public schools?  Would you rather have a tax system that raised enough to provide the basic infrastructure and programs we all depend on and made taxes affordable for everybody?  Or would you rather have one that gives tax havens for millionaires and makes us have to keep closing down bridges and driving up homelessness rates?)

The reason the perception of popular opinion is what it is is because no political party out there is leading with the truth, propagating an alternative narrative to the destructive pledge.  And how do you imagine that will ever change?  Democratic leaders are sacrificing fundamental Democratic values in order to win.  You might as well be Republicans at that point--you do the opposition's job for it by reaffirming and re-entrenching their reality and the seeming inevitability of their "solutions."

I, for one, would absolutely rather our candidates lead and run on core Democratic values than watch them contort themselves into something no one can recognize--not even themselves if they can stand to look in the mirror.  I think it's better to lose true than to win false.  Because once you've won false, on the pledge, you're not a whole lot of good.  You can't really solve the  biggest problems facing the state, and you force a whole party, all the way down the ticket, to defend sham solutions.  It made me cry to watch Democratic candidates try to defend all the smoke and mirrors in the FY 2010-11 budget.  (It's true the opposition told plenty of lies about it, but mixed in there was plenty of truth too.)  And what we've recently seen is the agony in many cases of running false and losing anyway.

When the Democrats and especially Democratic leaders aren't vigorously making the case for core Democratic values, just who do we expect will do it?  Where, in the airwaves, will we hear it?  Lemmings over a cliff.

Yes, I'd rather we run true and lose, if that's what it takes for the electorate to see some distinctions.  And I know I'm not the only Democrat who feels this way.  Because doing what we're doing is not a winning strategy:  it neither helps move the state in the right direction nor distinguishes Democrats as standing for Democratic principles in fiscal policy.  The right case never gets made anywhere.

We're in an ideological war for the soul of our state and country, and the two sides look like this?  One's for dismantling the public sector, privatizing everything, and promoting fiscal policies that funnel wealth to the top from the bottom.  And the other is for that too, just meekly and apologetically.  

Yes, the social issues matter, but not enough.  It won't matter if the right to abortion exists if in practice there is nowhere affordable to get one.  It won't matter if we have equal marriage if there are no jobs or affordable housing for any kind of couple or individual.  

So even if Lucy didn't mean what you think she did, I do.  With bells on.

[ Parent ]
False? (4.00 / 2)
There are a number of Democrats who truly do not support significant changes in the tax structure.

Also, asking if one supports an income tax, or a sales tax, or whatever, is not taking context away. It is a straightforward question.

Your analysis also forgets that a significant portion of the state's revenues come from income - income generated by businesses and income derived from interest and dividends taxes.  I'm not convinced that broadening that, to tax individual earnings from work, which a broad based income tax would do, is progressive.  Also, NH's constitution does not permit a graduated rate of taxation.

 



"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on."  Franklin D. Roosevelt    

[ Parent ]
Disagree to a significant extent, but excellent post n/t (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
We are suffering under (0.00 / 0)
Republican domination right now, I believe.  With a governor who took the pledge, 4 times.  
[ Parent ]
Lucy (4.00 / 1)
You are claiming that NH is no better off with Governor Lynch? Seriously?

Have you registered for the Sept 24 State Convention yet?
[ Parent ]
Right-o. (0.00 / 0)

[ Parent ]
Under "Governor" Stephen (4.00 / 4)
the  Right to Work for Less bill would have been signed as well as the horrible voter id bill. Governor Lynch is the only person standing between us and a worse than Wisconsin scenario. Also, the state would be joining the lawsuit against the Affordable Care Act, there's be absolutely NO hope for Planned Parenthood, marriage equality would have been gone already... There is probably more that I can't think of off the top of my head.
[ Parent ]
John Lynch Has Meant Much To New Hampshire (4.00 / 1)
Without John Lynch, New Hampshire would indeed have been a different place today.  A worse place.  The Right-Wingers/Tea Partiers have worked hard to dismantle much that we have done, but with John Lynch we've done so much these past few years that they can't destroy it all before the next election.  

And we simply would not have Civil Unions in 2007 or gay marriage in 2009 -- any of the Republicans who he beat would have vetoed them.  

Under separate post, I'm going to post my column from Sunday's Portsmouth Herald about John Lynch.  It's worth thinking about how New Hampshire would be different -- worse -- without this very good man, with whom certainly I haven't fully agreed, but who has been a good Governor.  

[ Parent ]
This is the best post... (4.00 / 1)
on this topic that I have seen in a long time. Thanks, hbsilbur, for laying it out so completely and succinctly!
[ Parent ]
The "I's" have it (0.00 / 0)
Independents will be key.  If we see Independents flocking to the GOP presidential primary, or even the Gov. Primary in Sept. 2012 we'll know we haven't done our job.

"We start working to beat these guys right now." -Jed Bartlet
[ Parent ]
Not sure about the presidential primary (4.00 / 1)
With an incumbent Democrat running (essentially or actually) unopposed in the primary, I expect more independents to vote in the GOP primary than may actually intend to vote for a Republican in the general.  It may be more telling to see (or hear analysis at least about) how many of those independents voted for someone like Rick Perry as opposed to someone like John Huntsman.  Either way, I'd read much less into than the gubernatorial primary, which unfortunately, is getting down to the wire.
[ Parent ]
I have known good people in NH (4.00 / 1)
to register undeclared to vote for some GOP candidate in the primary, especially for president, that they think might lose in the general, in hopes of getting them nominated.  Never had the stomach for it, myself, but sure know they are out there.
[ Parent ]
Mike, looks like the two-day rule didn't work (0.00 / 0)
You have at least commenter/voter ID that seems to have been created today...

They. Don't. Care.
We do.
Rinse, repeat.
I'll look into it (0.00 / 0)
maybe its only for creation of new diaries (or maybe I turned of off at somepoint after trying to explain it for the nth time via email!)

So long as people are authentically participating my sense it that it is ok.

Hope >> Fear





Create a free Blue Hampshire account and join the conversation.

[ Parent ]
We need a STRONG voice... (0.00 / 0)
I am supporting someone who is strong, articulate, passionate, grounded, open-minded and who will not sign the bloody pledge! Jackie Cilley is my candidate of choice and I will proudly cast my vote for her. If you have been receiving her informative Legislative Alerts then you know why her voice is a crucial one in our on-going State-wide conversations. If you are not receiving her Legislative Alerts, then please, do yourself a favor, and email Jackie now to be included on her list: jcilley@aol.com Please give her a serious look. She's a contender, and we need a contender - someone who will NOT carry a book to a knife fight, but will always be informed and educated about her opposition AND her CONSTITUENTS.

All the best for NH and beyond!

Poll (3.00 / 1)
Much difficulty getting signed in.  The site needs to be more user friendly.  Not everyone is going to spend 30 minutes responding to this or any other poll, and only the most regular users are going to take the time to overcome the frustrations.  I'm over 12 years old; therefore, at serious technological disadvantage.
It would be helpful (0.00 / 0)
for the site admins  to know specifically what the issue was that made it a half hour event for you.

On a separate note, surveys have shown that political blog users skew older, not younger, in age.

birch paper; on Twitter @deanbarker

[ Parent ]
I only wish I could vote for all of them! n/t (4.00 / 4)


birch paper; on Twitter @deanbarker
What's the Sense of Winning if You Are Stuck with the Pledge (0.00 / 0)
If a Democrat wins by taking the pledge then again we cannot realistically solve the revenue problem which since Mel Thomson has been "the" problem for NH and standing in the way of the future well-being and prosperity of all.  At best, a Democratic pledge taker will be able to play a slightly different cut game than the Republicans because without new revenue, we are playing the Republican's zero sum game - and is there really much difference if we abandon our elders or our fellow citizens who need us and our roads, schools, colleges, and environment if we do it sadly as Democrats rather than with Neal Kurk glee?

The public infrastructure we all need (even the right wing) to succeed and have a future is crumbling because of the pledge and the endless swirl of right wing anti-government rhetoric and misinformation around it.  Isn't it the height of social irresponsibility to feed this beast yet again by taking the Mel Thomson pledge in these difficult times for so many just so maybe we can get a few more in the lifeboats as our ship of state breaks apart and sinks?  

Isn't it time to rally around a new pledge that commits us to stop playing con games with the good citizens of NH and work unabashedly for the  common good?  Aren't most working families in NH uncertain and scared about making ends meet and their economic future, disgusted with the political games and the big money, and are looking for a pledge to address their real concerns with a little honesty, integrity, and a commitment to the common good rather than to those who pay for the campaigns and play the political games for a living?  

I agree in the main. (4.00 / 2)
However: we are (sadly) not even at the stage to begin having the conversation. I would not be surprised if we end up with a D Gov who does not take the pledge but who does not tackle fundamental revenue reform (especially amidst awful economic times). To me, that would be a real step forward, simply having the courage to step out of the pledge.  That gives the state the breathing room to have an honest conversation.

So for me, I'm hoping all the candidates just pledge to do right by Granite Staters.  I also think it is the electorally wise thing to do.

It's not a litmus test for me - I just think it is unwise both on policy and strategy grounds to be a pledger.

Of course I hope we internalize quickly the certainty that that the NHGOP and Union Leader, etc... will paint the nominee as a Pro-Income Tax Horrible Human Being no matter what pledge s/he takes or doesn't take.


birch paper; on Twitter @deanbarker

[ Parent ]
Maggie Hassan! (0.00 / 0)
My vote is for Maggie Hassan!  She has the strongest record to run on, she is a true and tried Democrat, and should still be in the Senate today!  I think that she best represents what being a Democrat is and will work the hardest for NH!
Democrats Yes! (4.00 / 1)
No Labels no!

No Labels cheerily paves the way for the far right to get its way. Instead of finding our backbone and standing up for our values, No Labels sacrifices all to play nice. The Republicans laugh and win.

I bring this up because perhaps not everyone knows Hassan, though I like her personally, is the NH spokesperson for No Labels. Democrats should know this.

No Labels? No Thanks! I'm a proud Democrat!

No'm Sayn?

[ Parent ]
yes, a Democrat! (4.00 / 2)
All due respect, but Hassan is NOT the NH spokesperson for No Labels.
[ Parent ]
OK, So Who Is? (0.00 / 0)
And while Steve Marchand wisely dropped them like a hot potato, Hassan not only stayed but in fact was a spokesperson.  

No'm Sayn?
[ Parent ]
Maggie Hassan, Citizen Leader of No Labels. (4.00 / 2)
At least according to the Nashua Telegraph.

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com...

I like Maggie, and she shows up when you need her.  On the other hand, as others have said, unless we heighten the contradictions, we engage our political opponents on their home turf.  We're in the middle of a mythical austerity expansion, or, death by contraction.  By this time next year, we're going to have serious social problems on our hands that cannot be solved by finding the center position between common sense and an extremist party.

I would vote for Maggie in a general against anyone the GOP could put up.  I'll work like hell for someone who offers a clear progressive vision.

"It has become Appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity"
   - Albert Einstein

[ Parent ]
Must be electable (4.00 / 2)
Given the current anti-government + pro-jobs climate out there, we must nominate someone outside of politics and preferably from a long-standing and successful NH business, that hopefully employs a substantial amount of people with decent wages.

This is not about our tax structure. Any talk of changing the tax structure, and we will lose the independents. (2002 - anyone??) This is not the year to vote utopian.

Don't lose sight of the main goal, which is ensuring we retain veto power in Concord.

I voted Hirshberg, but hey, nobody's even running yet.

Aaron / Deering. Kuster 2012: http://www.kusterforcongress.com/

Here we go again! (3.00 / 3)
Here we go again - nominating another hair on fire liberal. What's that oft-used definition of insanity? Doing the same thing time after time and each time expecting a different result. (1) Liberals dominate low-turnout Democratic primary elections. (2) The liberal Democratic candidates nominated in the primary are annihilated in the General Election when they face an electorate in which liberals are in a minority. These defeated liberal Democratic candidates at the top of the ticket drag down Democrats lower down on the ballot. The result is a Democratic calamity (See NH General Election in 2002). (3) What to do? For the moment,nominate moderate Democrats (Jeanne Shaheen, John Lynch, Dick Swett, Maggie Hassan) who at least stand a chance of winning a General Election. (4) If you want to elect a liberal, create a voter base in which liberals are in a majority. Until then, put away your fantasies and deal with reality.
Agreed (0.00 / 0)
We're not a blue enough state to elect a progressive firebrand as Governor.

Aaron / Deering. Kuster 2012: http://www.kusterforcongress.com/

[ Parent ]
Here's an idea... (4.00 / 5)

How about we hear more from folks who are supporting a particular (potential) candidate on the background and values of their candidate  and why they support him or her (without tearing down someone else)?

Have you registered for the Sept 24 State Convention yet?
Good idea Ray (0.00 / 0)
I'm keen on Gary Hirshberg for the following reasons:

1-Solid business credentials:
   Started NH business in 1983, now employs over 400
   Green business
    Business named 1 of 5 best large employers in 2010 by Business NH Magazine
    One of the 5 largest private companies in NH
2-Politically active, but not a politician
3-Can easily raise a lot of money
4-Very environmentally active

From NHPR interview: http://www.nhpr.org/node/14191

"I'm not a fan of big government and don't like regulation any more than the next person, but there can be no debate that we humans need to regulate and check our unconscious behaviors and to incentivize and reward those activities that actually slow and reverse climate change, protect biodiversity and open space, clean air and clean water... I think we can all agree that whether we see NH as a place to hunt, fish, hike or farm, that we like it here and would like our children to enjoy some of the gifts our state has given us."


Aaron / Deering. Kuster 2012: http://www.kusterforcongress.com/

[ Parent ]
I like Gary Hirshberg a LOT. (4.00 / 1)
And he is among the very few I am most excited about. Gary, if you are reading this, please consider running!

But to your many points above in the thread: you do realize, no, that he will be branded by the NHGOP as a progressive/socialist/income-taxer/downfall of civilization by NHGOP and the UL, just as all the others will be?

In fact, he will be the recipient of additional rightwing bile for being a pioneer in the world of organic food production.  He'll be the Dirty Hippie who wants to take away our childrens' patriotic  right to eat toxic food, etc...

All this is a way of suggesting that we might be better served by not dictating our own strategy by the perceived independent and the fear of the right, and we just field as strong a set of candidates as we can. Offer voters choices.

Also, if we pre-anoint someone becaue we are worried about a primary, we cede media attention.  Why we would turn away free chances at name recognition is beyond me.

Whoever the candidates are, my two cents are: focus on the kids the way John Lynch does.. This has been the most hostile state government to children I have ever seen.  Our children need and deserve a champion.  

birch paper; on Twitter @deanbarker

[ Parent ]
Excellent, Dean (0.00 / 0)
"Our children need and deserve a champion."

Dean -- yours is a most impressive reminder of what our government should be all about:  Our future. THEIR future.  

Let's hope whomever the candidates are, they become the champions we need.

[ Parent ]
after lynch (4.00 / 1)
I am a strong liberal, but I also recognize the governor should represent all of new hampshire. Lynch has been good at that. We have such a unique political make-up here in NH - libertarianism is strong, there is a great liberal make-up, and sometimes the conservatives seem at odds with the libertarians. I don't think someone too far in any direction would be good to put forward. I feel like the strong integrity we've already seen in Mr. Connolly, plus his likability as a candidate would make a good choice after Lynch. He would appeal to a lot of voters.
The cult of bipartisanship (0.00 / 0)
Maybe, just maybe, the so-called "independent" voter is looking for "politicians who look like they're fighting for something"?

Also from the same piece:

One polling organization that regularly examines them in depth, Pew, has found that nearly half of independents are in fact either faithful Democrats (21 percent) or Republicans (26 percent) who simply don't want to call themselves Democrats and Republicans. (Can you blame them?) Another 20 percent are "doubting Democrats" and another 16 percent are "disaffected" voters, respectively anti-business and anti-government, angry and populist rather than mildly centrist. The remaining 17 percent are what Pew calls "disengaged"-young and uneducated Americans, four fifths of whom don't vote anyway.

As a reminder: (4.00 / 1)
If John E. Sununu changed none of his views, switched party affiliation to Democrat and ran for Governor, he would the next day be Socialist, Progressive, Pro-Income Tax, Big Government John E. Sununu.

We Democrats have this funny habit of thinking that actual policy positions have something to do with how candidates are branded.

birch paper; on Twitter @deanbarker

This has been valuable (4.00 / 1)
A good conversation between knowledgable people.

Having run ( unsuccessfully ) last time in a moderately "red' Cheshire County House District ( yes, there are some),l offer the following observations, with some temerity:

     I think that the issue of the effects of the recession and the lack of income tax are separate issues. In some ways, it could be argued, with truth, that the effects of the recession have been far less severe in NH than elsewhere - e.g., the unemployment rate. So linking the two can be problematic.

     NH has become, IMHO, a moderately red state - used to be far more red. There are outlier elections toward both ends of the spectrum. In 2004, 2006 and 2008 there were perceived reasons for the great middle to slouch blue; in 2010 there were perceived reasons to slouch more red. So a lot depends on the assessment of the time and the public mood as to whether a moderate platform or an aggressive platform is called for. And, FWIW, I also join in the belief that that are few "true" independents. Most vote as they have in the past; most of the rest don't vote at all.

      Having said all that, if I run again I will not take the pledge. I will not substitute another pledge. I think the issue can be framed as one of "fairness" - fairness in how we collect our taxes and fairness in how we spend our taxes. Then a discussion can follow.

       As to this poll and these candidates, i take it in the spirit of good Democratic fun ( even if it may be serious to candidates and almost-candidates). The ones I have met in person or on-line or whose careers in politics I have followed - all are terrific.

       I voted for Jackie Cilley - she came and met with the Westmoreland Democrats ( and WOW'ed us). A hint to the rest.....

Rumor has it that others may attend the Cheshire County Spaghetti Dinner (spkr-Bernie Sanders) in October.


Good For You (0.00 / 0)
And it's good to hear your "alternative," not "substitute," for a pledge.  Framed as one of fairness -- how we together share on our ability to pay funding the important roles of government -- is something most people can understand.  Without government, we're all left to fend for ourselves, and the rich will indeed rule the world.  

And what's this "...if I run again..." ?  Do it.  The election is just 401 days from now (including Leap Year's added day).  That's just over 57 weeks so there's lots to do!

I love Jackie Cilley, and she'd be a great Governor.  We have so many excellent choices.  I think "All Of The Above" would be the overwhelming victor of the poll.  

[ Parent ]
thank you for your kind words (4.00 / 1)
I do expect to run again - yet it is very frustrating not to know what my District will look like. Cheshire-01 is currently made up of 3 smaller towns, and I can't help but think Westmoreland, Surry and/or Gilsum will be added flotarially to some awful gerrymandered hodgepodge of towns. Will Westmoreland be added to Chesterfield and Hinsdale? Be part of Walpole and environs? Very frustrating not to know.  
[ Parent ]
Jackie (4.00 / 1)
spent a great deal of time and energy making sure that as many people as possible knew what was going on in the state house during the last session (if that session is over, it's all so weird I have no idea).  I know there were nights she did not sleep in order to keep us informed.  She is a true grassroots person and people who know her tend to like her a LOT.  She's straight and honest, and her values come from her experience.  
[ Parent ]
NH-Gov Straw Poll #3 | 88 comments

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